Discussion:
10 Principles for Immigration Reform 1. The purpose of U.S. immigration policy is to benefit the citizens of the United States4. Non-citizens enter the United States as guests and must obey the rules governing their entry. The U.S. government must track the entry, stay, and departure of all visa-holders to ensure that they comply fully with the terms of their visas, or to remove them if they fail to comply. 5. The borders of the United States must be physically secured at the earliest possible time. An effective barrier to the illegal entry of both aliens and contraband is vital to U.S. security. 6. Those responsible for facilitating illegal immigration shall be sought, arrested and prosecuted to the full extent of the law and shall forfeit any profits from such activity. This applies to smugglers and traffickers of people, as well as to those involved in the production, procurement, distribution, or use of fraudulent or counterfeit documents
(too old to reply)
Ted
2007-11-06 11:42:02 UTC
Permalink
10 Principles for Immigration Reform
1. The purpose of U.S. immigration policy is to benefit the citizens
of the United States.
2. Since immigration policy can profoundly shape a country, it should
be set by deliberate actions, not by accident or acquiescence, with
careful consideration to ensure that it does not adversely affect the
quality of life of American citizens and their communities.
3. Immigration policy should be based on and adhere to the rule of
law. Immigration laws must be enforced consistently and uniformly
throughout the United States.
4. Non-citizens enter the United States as guests and must obey the
rules governing their entry. The U.S. government must track the entry,
stay, and departure of all visa-holders to ensure that they comply
fully with the terms of their visas, or to remove them if they fail to
comply.
5. The borders of the United States must be physically secured at the
earliest possible time. An effective barrier to the illegal entry of
both aliens and contraband is vital to U.S. security.
6. Those responsible for facilitating illegal immigration shall be
sought, arrested and prosecuted to the full extent of the law and
shall forfeit any profits from such activity. This applies to
smugglers and traffickers of people, as well as to those involved in
the production, procurement, distribution, or use of fraudulent or
counterfeit documents.
7. U.S. employers shall be given a simple and streamlined process to
determine whether employees are legally eligible to work. Employers
who obey the law shall be protected both from liability and from
unfair competition by those who violate immigration law. The violators
shall be subject to fines and taxes in excess of what they would have
paid to employ U.S. citizens and legal residents for the same work.
8. Those who enter or remain in the United States in violation of the
law shall be detained and removed expeditiously. Illegal aliens shall
not accrue any benefit, including U.S. citizenship, as a result of
their illegal entry or presence in the United States.
9. No federal, state or local entity shall reward individuals for
violating immigration laws by granting public benefits or services, or
by issuing or accepting any form of identification, or by providing
any other assistance that facilitates unlawful presence or employment
in this country. All federal and law enforcement agencies shall
cooperate fully with federal immigration authorities, and shall report
to such authorities any information they receive indicating that an
individual may have violated immigration laws.
10. Illegal aliens currently in the United States may be afforded a
one-time opportunity to leave the United States without penalty and
seek permission to reenter legally if they qualify under existing law.
Those who do not take advantage of this opportunity will be removed
and permanently barred from returning.
The scum in Washington, DC continues to fumble and evade significant
action.
America needs a total political rebirth, and it's not coming from the
dreary procession
of hacks now in power.

ted
Citizen Jimserac
2007-11-06 12:31:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted
10 Principles for Immigration Reform
1. The purpose of U.S. immigration policy is to benefit the citizens
of the United States.
2. Since immigration policy can profoundly shape a country, it should
be set by deliberate actions, not by accident or acquiescence, with
careful consideration to ensure that it does not adversely affect the
quality of life of American citizens and their communities.
3. Immigration policy should be based on and adhere to the rule of
law. Immigration laws must be enforced consistently and uniformly
throughout the United States.
4. Non-citizens enter the United States as guests and must obey the
rules governing their entry. The U.S. government must track the entry,
stay, and departure of all visa-holders to ensure that they comply
fully with the terms of their visas, or to remove them if they fail to
comply.
5. The borders of the United States must be physically secured at the
earliest possible time. An effective barrier to the illegal entry of
both aliens and contraband is vital to U.S. security.
6. Those responsible for facilitating illegal immigration shall be
sought, arrested and prosecuted to the full extent of the law and
shall forfeit any profits from such activity. This applies to
smugglers and traffickers of people, as well as to those involved in
the production, procurement, distribution, or use of fraudulent or
counterfeit documents.
7. U.S. employers shall be given a simple and streamlined process to
determine whether employees are legally eligible to work. Employers
who obey the law shall be protected both from liability and from
unfair competition by those who violate immigration law. The violators
shall be subject to fines and taxes in excess of what they would have
paid to employ U.S. citizens and legal residents for the same work.
8. Those who enter or remain in the United States in violation of the
law shall be detained and removed expeditiously. Illegal aliens shall
not accrue any benefit, including U.S. citizenship, as a result of
their illegal entry or presence in the United States.
9. No federal, state or local entity shall reward individuals for
violating immigration laws by granting public benefits or services, or
by issuing or accepting any form of identification, or by providing
any other assistance that facilitates unlawful presence or employment
in this country. All federal and law enforcement agencies shall
cooperate fully with federal immigration authorities, and shall report
to such authorities any information they receive indicating that an
individual may have violated immigration laws.
10. Illegal aliens currently in the United States may be afforded a
one-time opportunity to leave the United States without penalty and
seek permission to reenter legally if they qualify under existing law.
Those who do not take advantage of this opportunity will be removed
and permanently barred from returning.
The scum in Washington, DC continues to fumble and evade significant
action.
America needs a total political rebirth, and it's not coming from the
dreary procession
of hacks now in power.
ted
Not bad! I like #6 the best.

Numbers 7-10 don't show on my browser so I can't read them.

Citizen Jimserac
Benj
2007-11-06 20:32:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted
10 Principles for Immigration Reform
1. The purpose of U.S. immigration policy is to benefit the citizens
of the United States.
2. Since immigration policy can profoundly shape a country, it should
be set by deliberate actions, not by accident or acquiescence, with
careful consideration to ensure that it does not adversely affect the
quality of life of American citizens and their communities.
3. Immigration policy should be based on and adhere to the rule of
law. Immigration laws must be enforced consistently and uniformly
throughout the United States.
4. Non-citizens enter the United States as guests and must obey the
rules governing their entry. The U.S. government must track the entry,
stay, and departure of all visa-holders to ensure that they comply
fully with the terms of their visas, or to remove them if they fail to
comply.
5. The borders of the United States must be physically secured at the
earliest possible time. An effective barrier to the illegal entry of
both aliens and contraband is vital to U.S. security.
6. Those responsible for facilitating illegal immigration shall be
sought, arrested and prosecuted to the full extent of the law and
shall forfeit any profits from such activity. This applies to
smugglers and traffickers of people, as well as to those involved in
the production, procurement, distribution, or use of fraudulent or
counterfeit documents.
7. U.S. employers shall be given a simple and streamlined process to
determine whether employees are legally eligible to work. Employers
who obey the law shall be protected both from liability and from
unfair competition by those who violate immigration law. The violators
shall be subject to fines and taxes in excess of what they would have
paid to employ U.S. citizens and legal residents for the same work.
8. Those who enter or remain in the United States in violation of the
law shall be detained and removed expeditiously. Illegal aliens shall
not accrue any benefit, including U.S. citizenship, as a result of
their illegal entry or presence in the United States.
9. No federal, state or local entity shall reward individuals for
violating immigration laws by granting public benefits or services, or
by issuing or accepting any form of identification, or by providing
any other assistance that facilitates unlawful presence or employment
in this country. All federal and law enforcement agencies shall
cooperate fully with federal immigration authorities, and shall report
to such authorities any information they receive indicating that an
individual may have violated immigration laws.
10. Illegal aliens currently in the United States may be afforded a
one-time opportunity to leave the United States without penalty and
seek permission to reenter legally if they qualify under existing law.
Those who do not take advantage of this opportunity will be removed
and permanently barred from returning.
The scum in Washington, DC continues to fumble and evade significant
action.
Good stuff.

Of course those now in washington have immigration ideas too.

1. open borders to Third world to create a massive flux of people
(literally millions and millons) to dilute and degrade the American
Society to make it easier to rule.

2. Ignoring all immigration laws even to the point of arresting border
officers for doing their jobs.

3. Providing free schooling, medical care, welfare checks and all
other services to act as a magnet to draw third worlders to this
country.

4. Forbidding the arrest of any illegal immigrant discovered here,
limiting punishment to merely sending them back home where they simply
hop the fense again.

5. Quietly building a master plan to submerge the United States and it
Ideals into a super "Euro-style" North American union. The new Super-
country will of course need a new constitution with a "bill of
responsibilities" to replace our current form of government and Bill
of Rights.

6. Encourage Third worlders to illegally enter the U.S. by having the
Government required to provide all services and documents in both
Spanish and English.

7. Use the high crime and murder rates that result from all the Third
world immigration as a hammer in the hands of the owned media to
disarm all current law-abiding Americans.

8. Remove ID requirements on Voting so that the illegals can vote and
provide the political cover and support to keep these hacks in office
should there be a citizen backlash from their policies.

9. Take advantage of the immigrants employing them at slave wages so
as to make as much money as possible off their backs.

10. Get yourself placed in charge as a "leader" of the new North
American Union so as to continue your political gravy train and have
the joys of being a mini dictator!

Those are I believe the current principles of "immigration reform".
Timothy Crowley
2007-11-07 10:58:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Benj
Post by Ted
10 Principles for Immigration Reform
1. The purpose of U.S. immigration policy is to benefit the citizens
of the United States.
2. Since immigration policy can profoundly shape a country, it should
be set by deliberate actions, not by accident or acquiescence, with
careful consideration to ensure that it does not adversely affect the
quality of life of American citizens and their communities.
3. Immigration policy should be based on and adhere to the rule of
law. Immigration laws must be enforced consistently and uniformly
throughout the United States.
4. Non-citizens enter the United States as guests and must obey the
rules governing their entry. The U.S. government must track the entry,
stay, and departure of all visa-holders to ensure that they comply
fully with the terms of their visas, or to remove them if they fail to
comply.
5. The borders of the United States must be physically secured at the
earliest possible time. An effective barrier to the illegal entry of
both aliens and contraband is vital to U.S. security.
6. Those responsible for facilitating illegal immigration shall be
sought, arrested and prosecuted to the full extent of the law and
shall forfeit any profits from such activity. This applies to
smugglers and traffickers of people, as well as to those involved in
the production, procurement, distribution, or use of fraudulent or
counterfeit documents.
7. U.S. employers shall be given a simple and streamlined process to
determine whether employees are legally eligible to work. Employers
who obey the law shall be protected both from liability and from
unfair competition by those who violate immigration law. The violators
shall be subject to fines and taxes in excess of what they would have
paid to employ U.S. citizens and legal residents for the same work.
8. Those who enter or remain in the United States in violation of the
law shall be detained and removed expeditiously. Illegal aliens shall
not accrue any benefit, including U.S. citizenship, as a result of
their illegal entry or presence in the United States.
9. No federal, state or local entity shall reward individuals for
violating immigration laws by granting public benefits or services, or
by issuing or accepting any form of identification, or by providing
any other assistance that facilitates unlawful presence or employment
in this country. All federal and law enforcement agencies shall
cooperate fully with federal immigration authorities, and shall report
to such authorities any information they receive indicating that an
individual may have violated immigration laws.
10. Illegal aliens currently in the United States may be afforded a
one-time opportunity to leave the United States without penalty and
seek permission to reenter legally if they qualify under existing law.
Those who do not take advantage of this opportunity will be removed
and permanently barred from returning.
The scum in Washington, DC continues to fumble and evade significant
action.
Good stuff.
Of course those now in washington have immigration ideas too.
1. open borders to Third world to create a massive flux of people
(literally millions and millons) to dilute and degrade the American
Society to make it easier to rule.
2. Ignoring all immigration laws even to the point of arresting border
officers for doing their jobs.
3. Providing free schooling, medical care, welfare checks and all
other services to act as a magnet to draw third worlders to this
country.
4. Forbidding the arrest of any illegal immigrant discovered here,
limiting punishment to merely sending them back home where they simply
hop the fense again.
5. Quietly building a master plan to submerge the United States and it
Ideals into a super "Euro-style" North American union. The new Super-
country will of course need a new constitution with a "bill of
responsibilities" to replace our current form of government and Bill
of Rights.
6. Encourage Third worlders to illegally enter the U.S. by having the
Government required to provide all services and documents in both
Spanish and English.
7. Use the high crime and murder rates that result from all the Third
world immigration as a hammer in the hands of the owned media to
disarm all current law-abiding Americans.
8. Remove ID requirements on Voting so that the illegals can vote and
provide the political cover and support to keep these hacks in office
should there be a citizen backlash from their policies.
9. Take advantage of the immigrants employing them at slave wages so
as to make as much money as possible off their backs.
10. Get yourself placed in charge as a "leader" of the new North
American Union so as to continue your political gravy train and have
the joys of being a mini dictator!
Those are I believe the current principles of "immigration reform".- >
K-000k a d00dle do.

hint; put own the hate blog, they have poisoned wha's left of your
"mind"
Benj
2007-11-07 15:09:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Timothy Crowley
Post by Benj
Those are I believe the current principles of "immigration reform".- >
hint; put own the hate blog, they have poisoned wha's left of your
"mind"
Typical criminal response. Accuse the OTHER GUY of being the crook! I
know a nice mindless personal attack on one's intelligence always is
the winning argument in any debate in my book! Since you have pulled
out the "racist hate" card as well as the "insanity" card I guess that
means that you (and the authors of the 10 principles I outlined)
"win"!

I assume this means you are a Dimocrat given that any kind of fair
proposal is something you are totally against. [Examples include,
selection on merit rather than "affirmative action", a tax cut that is
the SAME percentage of your taxes for ALL taxpayers, and this case, a
fair and honest immigration policy] I can't believe how many Americans
you clowns fool with promises of implementing unfair laws to give
advantage to this or that group! You anti-American leftist Dimocrats
should all be shipped out to Mexico along with the illegals! You can
then re-apply or entry back into the country once you've passed a test
on the essential principles of American Government.
Timothy Crowley
2007-11-08 05:22:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Benj
Post by Timothy Crowley
Post by Benj
Those are I believe the current principles of "immigration reform".- >
hint; put own the hate blog, they have poisoned wha's left of your
"mind"
Typical criminal response. Accuse the OTHER GUY of being the crook! I
know a nice mindless personal attack on one's intelligence always is
the winning argument in any debate in my book! Since you have pulled
out the "racist hate" card as well as the "insanity" card I guess that
means that you (and the authors of the 10 principles I outlined)
"win"!
I assume this means you are a Dimocrat given that any kind of fair
proposal is something you are totally against. [Examples include,
selection on merit rather than "affirmative action", a tax cut that is
the SAME percentage of your taxes for ALL taxpayers, and this case, a
fair and honest immigration policy] I can't believe how many Americans
you clowns fool with promises of implementing unfair laws to give
advantage to this or that group! You anti-American leftist Dimocrats
should all be shipped out to Mexico along with the illegals! You can
then re-apply or entry back into the country once you've passed a test
on the essential principles of American Government.
k00k a D00dle do.
l***@cs.com
2007-11-08 09:32:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Timothy Crowley
k00k a D00dle do.
Hey chickenhead crow-ley..
Do you do anything other than mexican chicken noises?
Timothy Crowley
2007-11-09 14:25:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@cs.com
Post by Timothy Crowley
k00k a D00dle do.
Hey chickenhead crow-ley..
Do you do anything other than mexican chicken noises?
Aww, the wit and wisdom of the racist. hahahahah. Nice try, "lorad".
California Poppy
2007-11-07 15:46:07 UTC
Permalink
10 Principles for Immigration Reform
1. The purpose of U.S. immigration policy is to benefit the citizens
of the United States.
2. Since immigration policy can profoundly shape a country, it should
be set by deliberate actions, not by accident or acquiescence, with
careful consideration to ensure that it does not adversely affect the
quality of life of American citizens and their communities.
3. Immigration policy should be based on and adhere to the rule of
law. Immigration laws must be enforced consistently and uniformly
throughout the United States.
4. Non-citizens enter the United States as guests and must obey the
rules governing their entry. The U.S. government must track the entry,
stay, and departure of all visa-holders to ensure that they comply
fully with the terms of their visas, or to remove them if they fail to
comply.
5. The borders of the United States must be physically secured at the
earliest possible time. An effective barrier to the illegal entry of
both aliens and contraband is vital to U.S. security.
6. Those responsible for facilitating illegal immigration shall be
sought, arrested and prosecuted to the full extent of the law and
shall forfeit any profits from such activity. This applies to
smugglers and traffickers of people, as well as to those involved in
the production, procurement, distribution, or use of fraudulent or
counterfeit documents.
7. U.S. employers shall be given a simple and streamlined process to
determine whether employees are legally eligible to work. Employers
who obey the law shall be protected both from liability and from
unfair competition by those who violate immigration law. The violators
shall be subject to fines and taxes in excess of what they would have
paid to employ U.S. citizens and legal residents for the same work.
8. Those who enter or remain in the United States in violation of the
law shall be detained and removed expeditiously. Illegal aliens shall
not accrue any benefit, including U.S. citizenship, as a result of
their illegal entry or presence in the United States.
9. No federal, state or local entity shall reward individuals for
violating immigration laws by granting public benefits or services, or
by issuing or accepting any form of identification, or by providing
any other assistance that facilitates unlawful presence or employment
in this country. All federal and law enforcement agencies shall
cooperate fully with federal immigration authorities, and shall report
to such authorities any information they receive indicating that an
individual may have violated immigration laws.
10. Illegal aliens currently in the United States may be afforded a
one-time opportunity to leave the United States without penalty and
seek permission to reenter legally if they qualify under existing law.
Those who do not take advantage of this opportunity will be removed
and permanently barred from returning.
The primary holding point in this is the computer database to keep
track of everyone. It would take a powerful computer with built in
reminders. However, there are many business have such tracking
systems, so there is no reason the government couldn't buy or develop
one. We also need a temporary worker program which would permit entry
of workers when we need them.
Wayne
2007-11-07 16:06:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by California Poppy
10 Principles for Immigration Reform
1. The purpose of U.S. immigration policy is to benefit the citizens
of the United States.
2. Since immigration policy can profoundly shape a country, it should
be set by deliberate actions, not by accident or acquiescence, with
careful consideration to ensure that it does not adversely affect the
quality of life of American citizens and their communities.
3. Immigration policy should be based on and adhere to the rule of
law. Immigration laws must be enforced consistently and uniformly
throughout the United States.
4. Non-citizens enter the United States as guests and must obey the
rules governing their entry. The U.S. government must track the entry,
stay, and departure of all visa-holders to ensure that they comply
fully with the terms of their visas, or to remove them if they fail to
comply.
5. The borders of the United States must be physically secured at the
earliest possible time. An effective barrier to the illegal entry of
both aliens and contraband is vital to U.S. security.
6. Those responsible for facilitating illegal immigration shall be
sought, arrested and prosecuted to the full extent of the law and
shall forfeit any profits from such activity. This applies to
smugglers and traffickers of people, as well as to those involved in
the production, procurement, distribution, or use of fraudulent or
counterfeit documents.
7. U.S. employers shall be given a simple and streamlined process to
determine whether employees are legally eligible to work. Employers
who obey the law shall be protected both from liability and from
unfair competition by those who violate immigration law. The violators
shall be subject to fines and taxes in excess of what they would have
paid to employ U.S. citizens and legal residents for the same work.
8. Those who enter or remain in the United States in violation of the
law shall be detained and removed expeditiously. Illegal aliens shall
not accrue any benefit, including U.S. citizenship, as a result of
their illegal entry or presence in the United States.
9. No federal, state or local entity shall reward individuals for
violating immigration laws by granting public benefits or services, or
by issuing or accepting any form of identification, or by providing
any other assistance that facilitates unlawful presence or employment
in this country. All federal and law enforcement agencies shall
cooperate fully with federal immigration authorities, and shall report
to such authorities any information they receive indicating that an
individual may have violated immigration laws.
10. Illegal aliens currently in the United States may be afforded a
one-time opportunity to leave the United States without penalty and
seek permission to reenter legally if they qualify under existing law.
Those who do not take advantage of this opportunity will be removed
and permanently barred from returning.
The primary holding point in this is the computer database to keep
track of everyone. It would take a powerful computer with built in
reminders. However, there are many business have such tracking
systems, so there is no reason the government couldn't buy or develop
one. We also need a temporary worker program which would permit entry
of workers when we need them.
I would be afraid that the temporary worker program just opens the door to
"permanent" temporary workers.
Benj
2007-11-07 23:14:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne
I would be afraid that the temporary worker program just opens the door to
"permanent" temporary workers.
It only opens the door if those in government WANT it to "open the
door"! The gummint seems like it has no problem keeping track of the
number of pimples on my ass, but somehow want us to believe that they
can't track illegal workers when they demand your Citizen ID number
(SS #) for doing just about anything in this country if you are a
citizen. And that includes getting a job! Hey why is it that if *I*
apply for a job all manner of proof and ID are required, but illegals
don't have any problem. Can you say "government policy"? I knew that
you could!
RD (The Sandman)
2007-11-08 20:47:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Benj
Post by Wayne
I would be afraid that the temporary worker program just opens the
door to "permanent" temporary workers.
It only opens the door if those in government WANT it to "open the
door"! The gummint seems like it has no problem keeping track of the
number of pimples on my ass, but somehow want us to believe that they
can't track illegal workers when they demand your Citizen ID number
(SS #) for doing just about anything in this country if you are a
citizen. And that includes getting a job! Hey why is it that if *I*
apply for a job all manner of proof and ID are required, but illegals
don't have any problem. Can you say "government policy"? I knew that
you could!
Benj, I would doubt that you are applying for the same level of job that
most illegals are. I would place a lot of that non-asking of questions
on the employer. If they don't ask and pay under the table, just how
does the government know how many workers the company has?
--
RD (The Sandman)

War is absolute hell.....but to give in
to terrorism is much, much worse
Bruce in Bangkok
2007-11-09 03:34:11 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 14:47:53 -0600, "RD (The Sandman)"
Post by RD (The Sandman)
Post by Benj
Post by Wayne
I would be afraid that the temporary worker program just opens the
door to "permanent" temporary workers.
It only opens the door if those in government WANT it to "open the
door"! The gummint seems like it has no problem keeping track of the
number of pimples on my ass, but somehow want us to believe that they
can't track illegal workers when they demand your Citizen ID number
(SS #) for doing just about anything in this country if you are a
citizen. And that includes getting a job! Hey why is it that if *I*
apply for a job all manner of proof and ID are required, but illegals
don't have any problem. Can you say "government policy"? I knew that
you could!
Benj, I would doubt that you are applying for the same level of job that
most illegals are. I would place a lot of that non-asking of questions
on the employer. If they don't ask and pay under the table, just how
does the government know how many workers the company has?
Didn't I recently read about a proposed federal bill to prosecute the
employers of illegal immigrants and impose something like a $5,000
fine per employee, AND place the responsibility of determining the
legality of the individual directly on the employer?


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:remove underscores
from address for reply)
California Poppy
2007-11-09 16:17:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bruce in Bangkok
On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 14:47:53 -0600, "RD (The Sandman)"
Post by RD (The Sandman)
Post by Benj
Post by Wayne
I would be afraid that the temporary worker program just opens the
door to "permanent" temporary workers.
It only opens the door if those in government WANT it to "open the
door"! The gummint seems like it has no problem keeping track of the
number of pimples on my ass, but somehow want us to believe that they
can't track illegal workers when they demand your Citizen ID number
(SS #) for doing just about anything in this country if you are a
citizen. And that includes getting a job! Hey why is it that if *I*
apply for a job all manner of proof and ID are required, but illegals
don't have any problem. Can you say "government policy"? I knew that
you could!
Benj, I would doubt that you are applying for the same level of job that
most illegals are. I would place a lot of that non-asking of questions
on the employer. If they don't ask and pay under the table, just how
does the government know how many workers the company has?
Didn't I recently read about a proposed federal bill to prosecute the
employers of illegal immigrants and impose something like a $5,000
fine per employee, AND place the responsibility of determining the
legality of the individual directly on the employer?
Bruce-in-Bangkok
(Note:remove underscores
from address for reply)- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
They tried before to make schools and health care services responsible
for reporting illegals. It didn't work then and it still doesn't. We
can't expect employers to be responsible for illegals. It is the job
of our federal legislators to develop a rational immigration plan that
includes a guest worker program and a way to tract them when they are
here.
RD (The Sandman)
2007-11-11 16:27:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bruce in Bangkok
On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 14:47:53 -0600, "RD (The Sandman)"
Post by RD (The Sandman)
Post by Benj
Post by Wayne
I would be afraid that the temporary worker program just opens the
door to "permanent" temporary workers.
It only opens the door if those in government WANT it to "open the
door"! The gummint seems like it has no problem keeping track of the
number of pimples on my ass, but somehow want us to believe that they
can't track illegal workers when they demand your Citizen ID number
(SS #) for doing just about anything in this country if you are a
citizen. And that includes getting a job! Hey why is it that if *I*
apply for a job all manner of proof and ID are required, but illegals
don't have any problem. Can you say "government policy"? I knew that
you could!
Benj, I would doubt that you are applying for the same level of job that
most illegals are. I would place a lot of that non-asking of questions
on the employer. If they don't ask and pay under the table, just how
does the government know how many workers the company has?
Didn't I recently read about a proposed federal bill to prosecute the
employers of illegal immigrants and impose something like a $5,000
fine per employee, AND place the responsibility of determining the
legality of the individual directly on the employer?
I'll believe it when I see folks like Tyson Chicken go down in flames
rather than some small business owner or someone who simply hires a maid.
--
RD (The Sandman)

War is absolute hell.....but to give in
to terrorism is much, much worse
Benj
2007-11-09 06:34:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by RD (The Sandman)
Benj, I would doubt that you are applying for the same level of job that
most illegals are. I would place a lot of that non-asking of questions
on the employer. If they don't ask and pay under the table, just how
does the government know how many workers the company has?
I'm sure there is some non-asking of questions going on. But the
argument that the government just doesn't know or can't find out isn't
right. Companies pay taxes and believe me that if the IRS wants to
find out how many employees you have, they easily can. When the IRS
starts looking the other way you KNOW it's all about what those in the
administration WANT to happen rather than the law!

Even with ONE employee (such as a nanny) there have been quite a few
famous people caught paying illegals under the table so things can be
found out. Hey the bank monitors ALL transactions over $10,000.
Doesn't mean you can't get around the laws but if you've got a bunch
of illegal employees they are going to be pretty hard to hide unless
those in power LET you hide them. These days even down at the day
labor pool they are demanding reasonable ID.
=DrD=
2007-11-09 13:42:02 UTC
Permalink
Benj wrote:
... Hey the bank monitors ALL transactions over $10,000.
Hi Benj,
just a slight update: the tracking level is now $2500 to $3500,
depending on a couple things.
(I wrote OFAC software for a major bank shortly before retirement.)
--
Fui et vidi experiri.
=DSM=
RD (The Sandman)
2007-11-11 16:31:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Benj
Post by RD (The Sandman)
Benj, I would doubt that you are applying for the same level of job that
most illegals are. I would place a lot of that non-asking of
questions
Post by Benj
Post by RD (The Sandman)
on the employer. If they don't ask and pay under the table, just how
does the government know how many workers the company has?
I'm sure there is some non-asking of questions going on. But the
argument that the government just doesn't know or can't find out isn't
right. Companies pay taxes and believe me that if the IRS wants to
find out how many employees you have, they easily can. When the IRS
starts looking the other way you KNOW it's all about what those in the
administration WANT to happen rather than the law!
Unless they make personal visits to a busness, they only know how many
employees the company claims or processes taxes for. They have no idea
of what is going on under the table. Hell, we have legal citizens living
here who haven't paid taxes in decades since they always work 'under the
table'.
Post by Benj
Even with ONE employee (such as a nanny) there have been quite a few
famous people caught paying illegals under the table so things can be
found out.
They didn't get caught by the IRS. They got caught because they were in
some other jam and some folks talked.
Post by Benj
Hey the bank monitors ALL transactions over $10,000.
Many ways around that. One would be to pay your employees in smaller
checks than that. ;)
Post by Benj
Doesn't mean you can't get around the laws but if you've got a bunch
of illegal employees they are going to be pretty hard to hide unless
those in power LET you hide them. These days even down at the day
labor pool they are demanding reasonable ID.
Try in front of Home Depot.
--
RD (The Sandman)

War is absolute hell.....but to give in
to terrorism is much, much worse
Long Ranger
2007-11-09 05:43:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne
Post by California Poppy
The primary holding point in this is the computer database to keep
track of everyone. It would take a powerful computer with built in
reminders. However, there are many business have such tracking
systems, so there is no reason the government couldn't buy or develop
one. We also need a temporary worker program which would permit entry
of workers when we need them.
I would be afraid that the temporary worker program just opens the door to
"permanent" temporary workers.
Right. That is exactly where all this crap started. If we eliminated
welfare, we would dry up the market for these "guest workers". The rise in
immigrant labor historically lags behind the rise in welfare rolls by about
2 years.
n***@million
2007-11-07 17:04:42 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 07:46:07 -0800, California Poppy
Post by California Poppy
10 Principles for Immigration Reform
1. The purpose of U.S. immigration policy is to benefit the citizens
of the United States.
2. Since immigration policy can profoundly shape a country, it should
be set by deliberate actions, not by accident or acquiescence, with
careful consideration to ensure that it does not adversely affect the
quality of life of American citizens and their communities.
3. Immigration policy should be based on and adhere to the rule of
law. Immigration laws must be enforced consistently and uniformly
throughout the United States.
4. Non-citizens enter the United States as guests and must obey the
rules governing their entry. The U.S. government must track the entry,
stay, and departure of all visa-holders to ensure that they comply
fully with the terms of their visas, or to remove them if they fail to
comply.
5. The borders of the United States must be physically secured at the
earliest possible time. An effective barrier to the illegal entry of
both aliens and contraband is vital to U.S. security.
6. Those responsible for facilitating illegal immigration shall be
sought, arrested and prosecuted to the full extent of the law and
shall forfeit any profits from such activity. This applies to
smugglers and traffickers of people, as well as to those involved in
the production, procurement, distribution, or use of fraudulent or
counterfeit documents.
7. U.S. employers shall be given a simple and streamlined process to
determine whether employees are legally eligible to work. Employers
who obey the law shall be protected both from liability and from
unfair competition by those who violate immigration law. The violators
shall be subject to fines and taxes in excess of what they would have
paid to employ U.S. citizens and legal residents for the same work.
8. Those who enter or remain in the United States in violation of the
law shall be detained and removed expeditiously. Illegal aliens shall
not accrue any benefit, including U.S. citizenship, as a result of
their illegal entry or presence in the United States.
9. No federal, state or local entity shall reward individuals for
violating immigration laws by granting public benefits or services, or
by issuing or accepting any form of identification, or by providing
any other assistance that facilitates unlawful presence or employment
in this country. All federal and law enforcement agencies shall
cooperate fully with federal immigration authorities, and shall report
to such authorities any information they receive indicating that an
individual may have violated immigration laws.
10. Illegal aliens currently in the United States may be afforded a
one-time opportunity to leave the United States without penalty and
seek permission to reenter legally if they qualify under existing law.
Those who do not take advantage of this opportunity will be removed
and permanently barred from returning.
The primary holding point in this is the computer database to keep
track of everyone. It would take a powerful computer with built in
reminders. However, there are many business have such tracking
systems, so there is no reason the government couldn't buy or develop
one. We also need a temporary worker program which would permit entry
of workers when we need them.
Unfortunately, the private sector world hires the best of employees to
work the various computerized data bases where the initial decisions
are made at the lowest levels and passed on up to the highest levels.
That computerized based decision system works quite well and it also
has corrective programs run by people with good skills. Look at the
number of corporations that have fallen off the books due to
ineffective interpretation of data.

The government agencies hire the lowest skilled folks at the lowest
levels who pass along first response decisions up to the next levels,
which are too often comprised of people who worked there way up from
the lowest levels. no governmental agency has ever fallen of the books
due to ineffective interpretation of collected data.

The biggest scams of buying worthless/useless computer systems occurs
at the governmental agencies. Private business avoids it or perishes.

In government, the Peter Principle, the one that states people rise in
an organization up to the level of their incompetency, comes to mind.
In governmental matters, people rise six, seven, eight steps, etc., to
their level of incompetency(s), many with US Senate approval. Then
they operate the computer systems.

Currently, we see have agencies that can't enforce the laws on the
books let alone make any effective decisions in the public interests.
The computer has become a tool that takes the place of human
decisions. It's the old efficiency vs effective argument.

In government, principles sound good, application leaves much to be
desired.

Expect little or no improvement soon.

Just an idle thought.

DCI
Dave Bugg
2007-11-07 17:45:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by California Poppy
The primary holding point in this is the computer database to keep
track of everyone. It would take a powerful computer with built in
reminders. However, there are many business have such tracking
systems, so there is no reason the government couldn't buy or develop
one.
Heck, all ICE would need to do is put out a contract for a company, or
companies, to be paid for a database on a piecemeal work basis; a 'bounty'
(or a 'royalty' if you like the term better), for every illegal captured.
Capitalistic incentive would be quick to get companies up and running with
the databases ICE needed.
--
Dave
www.davebbq.com
l***@cs.com
2007-11-08 09:47:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Bugg
Heck, all ICE would need to do is put out a contract for a company, or
companies, to be paid for a database on a piecemeal work basis; a 'bounty'
(or a 'royalty' if you like the term better), for every illegal captured.
Capitalistic incentive would be quick to get companies up and running with
the databases ICE needed.
Davewww.davebbq.com
Makes good sense..
A bounty for every illegal hauled in..
It would save Billions of US taxpayer dollars.

- Welfare payments
- Hospital bills
- Education costs
- Housing costs
- Translation, printing, and interpreter costs
- Anchor 'bebby' costs
- Illegal Welcome Center costs
- Prosecution and prison costs
- And it would keep them from robbing and killing US citizens, too.

Don't even need a computer system.
All you need is reasonable eyesight and the ability to drive down most
any street.

PS: And add a larger bounty for any employer of illegals turned in.
l***@cs.com
2007-11-08 15:47:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Bugg
Heck, all ICE would need to do is put out a contract for a company, or
companies, to be paid for a database on a piecemeal work basis; a 'bounty'
(or a 'royalty' if you like the term better), for every illegal captured.
Capitalistic incentive would be quick to get companies up and running with
the databases ICE needed.
Davewww.davebbq.com
Makes good sense..
A bounty for every illegal hauled in..
It would save Billions of US taxpayer dollars.

- Welfare payments
- Hospital bills
- Education costs
- Housing costs
- Translation, printing, and interpreter costs
- Anchor 'bebby' costs
- Illegal Welcome Center costs
- Prosecution and prison costs
- And it would keep them from robbing and killing US citizens, too.

Don't even need a computer system.
All you need is reasonable eyesight and the ability to drive down most
any street.

PS: And add a larger bounty for any employer of illegals turned in.
RD (The Sandman)
2007-11-08 20:49:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@cs.com
Post by Dave Bugg
Heck, all ICE would need to do is put out a contract for a company,
or companies, to be paid for a database on a piecemeal work basis; a
'bounty' (or a 'royalty' if you like the term better), for every
illegal captured. Capitalistic incentive would be quick to get
companies up and running with the databases ICE needed.
Davewww.davebbq.com
Makes good sense..
A bounty for every illegal hauled in..
It would save Billions of US taxpayer dollars.
- Welfare payments
- Hospital bills
- Education costs
- Housing costs
- Translation, printing, and interpreter costs
- Anchor 'bebby' costs
- Illegal Welcome Center costs
- Prosecution and prison costs
- And it would keep them from robbing and killing US citizens, too.
Don't even need a computer system.
All you need is reasonable eyesight and the ability to drive down most
any street.
Damn, you have the ability to know who is legal or illegal simply by
seeing them on the street? You should be a shoe in for any job with the
INS.
--
RD (The Sandman)

War is absolute hell.....but to give in
to terrorism is much, much worse
RM v2.0
2007-11-12 14:55:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by RD (The Sandman)
Post by l***@cs.com
Don't even need a computer system.
All you need is reasonable eyesight and the ability to drive down most
any street.
Damn, you have the ability to know who is legal or illegal simply by
seeing them on the street? You should be a shoe in for any job with the
INS.
Actually it is fairly easy, they have a look about them, hard to define but
it is there. I bet you if I point out 100 around here that I would be right
about at least 85 of them. Drive by Home Depot, you can get 20-50 a day.
This isnt a cliche, they are actually there. Suppossedly a grasp of english
is required to be a citizen and if they cant speak any at all then likely
illegal. If they were born here then there is no way in hell they grew up
not speaking english.
Stephan Rothstein
2007-11-13 01:15:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by RM v2.0
Post by RD (The Sandman)
Post by l***@cs.com
Don't even need a computer system.
All you need is reasonable eyesight and the ability to drive down most
any street.
Damn, you have the ability to know who is legal or illegal simply by
seeing them on the street? You should be a shoe in for any job with the
INS.
Actually it is fairly easy, they have a look about them, hard to define but
it is there. I bet you if I point out 100 around here that I would be right
about at least 85 of them. Drive by Home Depot, you can get 20-50 a day.
This isnt a cliche, they are actually there. Suppossedly a grasp of english
is required to be a citizen and if they cant speak any at all then likely
illegal. If they were born here then there is no way in hell they grew up
not speaking english.
Not been to South Texas lately, huh? There are a lot of places in Texas
where a person can be born and raised and not speak English. There was
even one town that passed a city ordinance making Spanish the official
language of the town since that was what the majority spoke.

Steve Rothstein
RD (The Sandman)
2007-11-13 16:06:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephan Rothstein
Post by RM v2.0
Post by RD (The Sandman)
Post by l***@cs.com
Don't even need a computer system.
All you need is reasonable eyesight and the ability to drive down
most any street.
Damn, you have the ability to know who is legal or illegal simply by
seeing them on the street? You should be a shoe in for any job with
the INS.
Actually it is fairly easy, they have a look about them, hard to
define but it is there. I bet you if I point out 100 around here that
I would be right about at least 85 of them. Drive by Home Depot, you
can get 20-50 a day. This isnt a cliche, they are actually there.
Suppossedly a grasp of english is required to be a citizen and if
they cant speak any at all then likely illegal. If they were born
here then there is no way in hell they grew up not speaking english.
Not been to South Texas lately, huh?
Or southern Arizona.
Post by Stephan Rothstein
There are a lot of places in
Texas where a person can be born and raised and not speak English.
There was even one town that passed a city ordinance making Spanish
the official language of the town since that was what the majority
spoke.
Steve Rothstein
--
RD (The Sandman)

War is absolute hell.....but to give in
to terrorism is much, much worse
RM v2.0
2007-11-13 19:00:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephan Rothstein
Post by RM v2.0
Actually it is fairly easy, they have a look about them, hard to define
but it is there. I bet you if I point out 100 around here that I would be
right about at least 85 of them. Drive by Home Depot, you can get 20-50 a
day. This isnt a cliche, they are actually there. Suppossedly a grasp of
english is required to be a citizen and if they cant speak any at all
then likely illegal. If they were born here then there is no way in hell
they grew up not speaking english.
Not been to South Texas lately, huh? There are a lot of places in Texas
where a person can be born and raised and not speak English. There was
even one town that passed a city ordinance making Spanish the official
language of the town since that was what the majority spoke.
I am talking about around here in Houston. If you question someone who
doesnt speak english and is legal, thank them for their trouble and walk
away. If they are legal it shouldnt be a problem.
RD (The Sandman)
2007-11-13 23:27:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by RM v2.0
Post by Stephan Rothstein
Post by RM v2.0
Actually it is fairly easy, they have a look about them, hard to
define but it is there. I bet you if I point out 100 around here
that I would be right about at least 85 of them. Drive by Home
Depot, you can get 20-50 a day. This isnt a cliche, they are
actually there. Suppossedly a grasp of english is required to be a
citizen and if they cant speak any at all then likely illegal. If
they were born here then there is no way in hell they grew up not
speaking english.
Not been to South Texas lately, huh? There are a lot of places in
Texas where a person can be born and raised and not speak English.
There was even one town that passed a city ordinance making Spanish
the official language of the town since that was what the majority
spoke.
I am talking about around here in Houston. If you question someone who
doesnt speak english and is legal, thank them for their trouble and
walk away. If they are legal it shouldnt be a problem.
Why do you think he should be questioning any of them as to legal status?
Particularly if he is simply seeing them on the street as you indicated
above. I doubt that it is part of his job description as there are
others who get paid to do just that.
--
RD (The Sandman)

War is absolute hell.....but to give in
to terrorism is much, much worse
RM v2.0
2007-11-26 14:14:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by RD (The Sandman)
Post by RM v2.0
Post by Stephan Rothstein
Not been to South Texas lately, huh? There are a lot of places in
Texas where a person can be born and raised and not speak English.
There was even one town that passed a city ordinance making Spanish
the official language of the town since that was what the majority
spoke.
I am talking about around here in Houston. If you question someone who
doesnt speak english and is legal, thank them for their trouble and
walk away. If they are legal it shouldnt be a problem.
Why do you think he should be questioning any of them as to legal status?
Particularly if he is simply seeing them on the street as you indicated
above. I doubt that it is part of his job description as there are
others who get paid to do just that.
I dont mean just walk up to them on the street. But the ones, for example,
who are loitering on Home Depot property, work "centers" etc can be
questioned as loitering is an offense. Traffic stops, etc are also available
for identification and arrest.

RD (The Sandman)
2007-11-13 16:05:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by RM v2.0
Post by RD (The Sandman)
Post by l***@cs.com
Don't even need a computer system.
All you need is reasonable eyesight and the ability to drive down
most any street.
Damn, you have the ability to know who is legal or illegal simply by
seeing them on the street? You should be a shoe in for any job with
the INS.
Actually it is fairly easy, they have a look about them, hard to
define but it is there. I bet you if I point out 100 around here that
I would be right about at least 85 of them. Drive by Home Depot, you
can get 20-50 a day. This isnt a cliche, they are actually there.
Suppossedly a grasp of english is required to be a citizen and if they
cant speak any at all then likely illegal. If they were born here then
there is no way in hell they grew up not speaking english.
However, they could still be legal resident aliens. I know several who
are and don't speak English or very little.
--
RD (The Sandman)

War is absolute hell.....but to give in
to terrorism is much, much worse
RM v2.0
2007-11-13 19:02:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by RD (The Sandman)
Post by RM v2.0
Actually it is fairly easy, they have a look about them, hard to
define but it is there. I bet you if I point out 100 around here that
I would be right about at least 85 of them. Drive by Home Depot, you
can get 20-50 a day. This isnt a cliche, they are actually there.
Suppossedly a grasp of english is required to be a citizen and if they
cant speak any at all then likely illegal. If they were born here then
there is no way in hell they grew up not speaking english.
However, they could still be legal resident aliens. I know several who
are and don't speak English or very little.
I dont have sympathy for people who come here, or to any foreign country and
dont learn the language. I dont mean new arrivals but ones who have been
here for a while. Hell, I traveled to Italy for a 1 week vacation but spent
6 months learning basic Italian in my spare time.
RD (The Sandman)
2007-11-13 23:25:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by RM v2.0
Post by RD (The Sandman)
Post by RM v2.0
Actually it is fairly easy, they have a look about them, hard to
define but it is there. I bet you if I point out 100 around here
that I would be right about at least 85 of them. Drive by Home
Depot, you can get 20-50 a day. This isnt a cliche, they are
actually there. Suppossedly a grasp of english is required to be a
citizen and if they cant speak any at all then likely illegal. If
they were born here then there is no way in hell they grew up not
speaking english.
However, they could still be legal resident aliens. I know several
who are and don't speak English or very little.
I dont have sympathy for people who come here, or to any foreign
country and dont learn the language. I dont mean new arrivals but ones
who have been here for a while. Hell, I traveled to Italy for a 1 week
vacation but spent 6 months learning basic Italian in my spare time.
Good for you. Many folks simply find an enclave where their native
language is spoken and that is where they live and hang out. Americans
are among the laziest in this regard. I know, I am one. ;)
--
RD (The Sandman)

War is absolute hell.....but to give in
to terrorism is much, much worse
RM v2.0
2007-11-26 14:12:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by RD (The Sandman)
Post by RM v2.0
I dont have sympathy for people who come here, or to any foreign
country and dont learn the language. I dont mean new arrivals but ones
who have been here for a while. Hell, I traveled to Italy for a 1 week
vacation but spent 6 months learning basic Italian in my spare time.
Good for you. Many folks simply find an enclave where their native
language is spoken and that is where they live and hang out. Americans
are among the laziest in this regard. I know, I am one. ;)
--
The GF was paranoid for months that we would find no one who spoke english.
I tried to tell her they speak english in most countries to some degree. She
didnt know I was learning Italian and the look on her face was priceless
when I told the clerk I had reservations, etc in Italian.
When Dogs Run Free
2007-11-08 04:16:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by California Poppy
10 Principles for Immigration Reform
1. The purpose of U.S. immigration policy is to benefit the citizens
of the United States.
2. Since immigration policy can profoundly shape a country, it should
be set by deliberate actions, not by accident or acquiescence, with
careful consideration to ensure that it does not adversely affect the
quality of life of American citizens and their communities.
3. Immigration policy should be based on and adhere to the rule of
law. Immigration laws must be enforced consistently and uniformly
throughout the United States.
4. Non-citizens enter the United States as guests and must obey the
rules governing their entry. The U.S. government must track the entry,
stay, and departure of all visa-holders to ensure that they comply
fully with the terms of their visas, or to remove them if they fail to
comply.
5. The borders of the United States must be physically secured at the
earliest possible time. An effective barrier to the illegal entry of
both aliens and contraband is vital to U.S. security.
6. Those responsible for facilitating illegal immigration shall be
sought, arrested and prosecuted to the full extent of the law and
shall forfeit any profits from such activity. This applies to
smugglers and traffickers of people, as well as to those involved in
the production, procurement, distribution, or use of fraudulent or
counterfeit documents.
7. U.S. employers shall be given a simple and streamlined process to
determine whether employees are legally eligible to work. Employers
who obey the law shall be protected both from liability and from
unfair competition by those who violate immigration law. The violators
shall be subject to fines and taxes in excess of what they would have
paid to employ U.S. citizens and legal residents for the same work.
8. Those who enter or remain in the United States in violation of the
law shall be detained and removed expeditiously. Illegal aliens shall
not accrue any benefit, including U.S. citizenship, as a result of
their illegal entry or presence in the United States.
9. No federal, state or local entity shall reward individuals for
violating immigration laws by granting public benefits or services, or
by issuing or accepting any form of identification, or by providing
any other assistance that facilitates unlawful presence or employment
in this country. All federal and law enforcement agencies shall
cooperate fully with federal immigration authorities, and shall report
to such authorities any information they receive indicating that an
individual may have violated immigration laws.
10. Illegal aliens currently in the United States may be afforded a
one-time opportunity to leave the United States without penalty and
seek permission to reenter legally if they qualify under existing law.
Those who do not take advantage of this opportunity will be removed
and permanently barred from returning.
The primary holding point in this is the computer database to keep
track of everyone. It would take a powerful computer with built in
reminders. However, there are many business have such tracking
systems, so there is no reason the government couldn't buy or develop
one. We also need a temporary worker program which would permit entry
of workers when we need them.
Better yet, let's implant a techno-chip into everyone. Then, using GPS,
Big Brother will know where everyone is, all the time. If you walk
across a political/geographic line in the database, you get sent to
GitMo.

Fair enough?

If you're not a criminal, what you gotta be afraid of?




















"An oppressive government is more to be feared than a tiger." -
Confucius
Benj
2007-11-08 10:07:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by When Dogs Run Free
Better yet, let's implant a techno-chip into everyone. Then, using GPS,
Big Brother will know where everyone is, all the time. If you walk
across a political/geographic line in the database, you get sent to
GitMo.
Fair enough?
If you're not a criminal, what you gotta be afraid of?
Hey, great idea, Dog-run!
Only I'm with Confucius when it comes to police-state governments.

So how about this one? We implant a techno-chip in every Illegal we
catch before we send them "home" across the border. And then we
install an "invisible fence" all along the border. If they try to
come back in, the chip releases something and makes them all sick. The
cure is only available from a doctor who turns them all in. They get
sent home again only this time with a chip that kills you when you
cross the "invisible fence"! Three strikes and you are out!
Post by When Dogs Run Free
"An oppressive government is more to be feared than a tiger." -
Confucius
bbloulou
2007-11-08 13:37:50 UTC
Permalink
INSANITY RULES!!!!

Illegal Stripper Uliana Abramova try for brake marriage for American $$
$$$$ & green card!!!!!

Every body knows to her!!!!! Every body want her out of USA!!!!!

Goverment people still taking too long to deport to her!!!!

Still she here & laugher at every body!!!! She do all crimes do what
she want!!!!

ILLEGAL ULIANA GET OUT OF NY OUT OF USA!!!!!

Very wrong what this illegal did, she brake visa, brake family!!! Make
sex with stupid American guy he father of 4 year son!!!

Look at picture of Illegal Uliana!!!!yo can see in bad face that she
is bad person have no soul any place. Have no heart.

http://puertorico.craigslist.org/rnr/458349359.html

She have no soul care for no body!!! Only want American $$$$$$ & Green
Card!!!

Now little boy doesnt see his papa!!! Wife is very sad!!!! Family is
all broke!!!

Illegal Uliana try for blackmail wife!!!! Make lies and get into
university allso!!!

She does all crimes, she is laugher & do what she want. What person
does this???

This criminlal illegal is psycho for sure!!!!

ILLEGAL ULIANA GET OUT OF NY OUT OF USA!!!!!

Sometime soon they deport to her I hope! But here is info for you to
think about so protext self, family job & country.

YO See picture of weseal face stripper. She make change nose
she try and fix face for may be 5 to 10 hour put on dress cloth but
STILL
yo can see she have no soul!!! Face is like some bad animal she only
want some thing kill & eat.

http://puertorico.craigslist.org/rnr/458349359.html

Chat of stripper EXACT PLAN to get into US illegal
http://www.site2date.com/chat/data/23597_35806.txt

For Report Illegal Aliens
http://www.reportillegals.com/

More criminal like Stripper
http://blogcritics.org/archives/2005/10/23/080527.php

.......................

We are laugher allso. Illegal Uliana never get Green Card!!!!

Immigration & goverment people knows to her now for sure!!!
They say she need to go home!!!

Louie
(I am Puerto Rican American Patriot& family guy)

................

Look at this Mr Sanjay post I put up again.

Read & find all info about Illegal Uliana & what she plan &
what she do. This is true case de veras not some story.

.................

To Whom it May Concern:

Please be advised that Uliana Abramova, recently dismissed from Scores
NY West Side, is in flagrant violation of her Non-Immigrant J-1 Visa.
She is presently based in New York City, and it is likely that she
will at some point seek employment at your New York City location. It
has come to our attention that Abramova has attempted to prevent
widespread knowledge of her illegal status She has attempted to coerce
several American men into marriage, in order to derive immigration
benefits. Abramova has in fact made serious threats against the wife
of one of the men she seduced, the father of a four year old child.
Please see the original email she sent to this poor woman, directly
following this email.

I must state unequivocally that all of the statements contained herein
are factual and verifiable. It is also true that the removal from the
USA of Uliana Abramova would not normally be a matter of such urgency,
except that she is a person who enjoys creating mischief and havoc.
She is therefore a liability to anyone who may employ her, and a
public nuisance in general.

Abramova effects an innocent, naive demeanor but is predatory,
unpredictable and dangerous. She is a Russian national and speaks with
an accent, is 5'5" tall, with an extremely slight build and thin wispy
hair dyed red or blond. She has altered her appearance considerably in
the past few years (several surgeries to eliminate a bulbous nose),
and may continue to do so.

Our documentation indicates that Abramova came to the USA with the
definite intention of violating the conditions of her temporary, Non-
Immigrant, nonrenewable J-1 Visa. Entry into the USA was granted to
her under the stipulation that she work as a camp counselor at CCUSA
from 5/06 until 10/06. Abramova never showed up to work at the camp
and she also remained in the USA past the term of her temporary visa,
10/06. She is therefore both in violation of her visa and in overstay.

The word is lately that Abramova has been admitted to university,
possibly one of those in the CUNY system. She has accomplished this by
failing to disclose her illegal status. This will not stand. She is
going to be deported. Abramova is not legally allowed to work or live
or do anything anywhere in the USA. She in fact was recently refused a
student visa on the basis of her intentional violation of the J-1
Visa.

Contact has been made with ICE and with the Compliance Unit,
Department of State. Representative Jerrold Nadler of Manhattan
Congressional District 8 has offered to be of assistance, and the
process of having her removed from the USA is well under way.

Please be good enough to take this information seriously. It should
serve as a warning to avoid employing or associating with persons of
this description. I will not post the relevant law here, but suffice
it to say that anyone who employs Abramova or otherwise acts in any
manner than enables her to stay in the USA is guilty of "harboring,"
an offense punishable by 5 years in jail.

If you consider posting this warning on the internet to be excessively
inflammatory, please be good enough to advise your colleagues of this
matter privately. Thus informed, they can act according to their own
best judgement.

Sincerely yours,
Sanjay Karam, Esq.

cc: Immigration and Customs Enforcement (Department of Homeland
Security)

United States Department of State (Compliance Unit)

................

Yo read this Illegal Stripper send to wife Mrs Lena!!!

She try and blackmail to her!!! Police need put her in jail now!!!!

.................

From: ***@yahoo.com
To: ***@aol.com

Cc: ***@aol.com
Sent: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 4:34 PM
Subject: О�,ве�,: Fwd: arthur

***@aol.com wrote:

Arthur's wife here. I will get you out of the country, you whore. I
am writing to immigration. You bet, you lost your job because of me.
Ha-ha.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lena

I was not aware Arthur was married for 4 month , only after 4 month I
found out he is married and has a son. I tried to brake it off, and he
was the one calling me and insisting on seeing me all the time,
although i asked him to break it off. He loves me and if he wants to
be with me, I cant stop him. The only person who can stop it, is
Arthur himself.

When i type my first and last name in google, this what comes up:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=uliana+abramova&btnG=Google+Search

and when I click on the first link that what i see:

http://www3.stripclublist.com/image?refno=1553170&record=18518

U have much more to loose then i am. U have friends , family, and U go
to hunter college.

I will post your husbands naked pictures all over the net as well as
russianny.com. I have naked pictures, videos of him, making love to
me, etc...

I don't want to hurt your feeling and send u these pictures, unless U
want me to, but if wont remove the link, I will post it in the
internet next week. All of them... and I have more then 10. If U don't
belief me , I send them to U.

Don't go there, its up to him to make a decision. I didn't take him
away from U, he did it all himself.

Its the softest one.

.............

Yo cant belief this Illegal Stripper do all crimes & still is here!!!!
Seguro que si they deport to her soon.

Yo look again at weseal face of Illegal STripper. Ojala que yo run
fast & far if yo see to her!!!!!

Only some stupid guy go to her like jump ofo bridge.

http://puertorico.craigslist.org/rnr/458349359.html

Illegal Stripper Uliana Abramova try for brake marriage for American $$
$$$$ & green card!!!!!

Every body knows to her!!!!! Every body want her out of USA!!!!!

Goverment people still taking too long to deport to her!!!!

Please for all yo report to illegal live near yo if yo know. Stop for
these crime!!!! Stop for more psycho stripper come to USA!!!

Yo do this yo pretect self & family. Every body stay more save.

Louie
(I am Puerto Rican American patriot & family guy)

......................




On Nov 6, 1:02 pm, "Schmuck Schumer : Scumbag Senaturd from NY"

- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
A Day Later, Clinton Embraces Spitzer's License Effort
New york Times
October 31, 2007, 4:13 pm
A day after she appeared to struggle to give her views on the subject,
Hillary Rodham Clinton offered support today for Gov. Eliot Spitzer's effort
to award New York driver's licenses toillegalimmigrants, as her campaign
sought to contain potentially damaging fallout from a what her own
supporters saw as a tense and listless debate performance.
Mrs. Clinton's statement affirming her support of Mr. Spitzer in his office
came less than a day after she offered a muddled and hesitant position on
the bill, prompting a round of denunciations by her opponents. It signaled
the extent to which her advisers viewed that moment as the biggest misstep
she made in the debate, and one with long-term potential to undermine her
candidacy.
"Senator Clinton supports governors like Governor Spitzer who believe they
need such a measure to deal with the crisis caused by this administration's
failure to pass comprehensive immigration reform,'" her campaign said.
Mrs. Clinton's aides said her statement was intended to signal that she
broadly supported Mr. Spitzer's goal of awarding driver's licenses toillegalimmigrants. Mr. Spitzer initially proposed a blanket program of
awarding full-fledged driver's licenses toillegalimmigrants; in the face
of sharp opposition from the Legislature, he backed off and presented a
two-tier program system of awarding licenses toillegalimmigrants.
Mrs. Clinton's advisers said that she had not studied either plan, and was
not specifically endorsing either of them.
Still, the wording of the statement was murkier than what many of her
opponents have said in either supporting or opposing Mr. Spitzer's
initiatives. Among those opposing it were Senator Christopher Dodd of
Connecticut; Senator Barack Obama of Illinois supported it.
...
When Dogs Run Free
2007-11-08 14:15:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Benj
Post by When Dogs Run Free
Better yet, let's implant a techno-chip into everyone. Then, using GPS,
Big Brother will know where everyone is, all the time. If you walk
across a political/geographic line in the database, you get sent to
GitMo.
Fair enough?
If you're not a criminal, what you gotta be afraid of?
Hey, great idea, Dog-run!
Only I'm with Confucius when it comes to police-state governments.
So how about this one? We implant a techno-chip in every Illegal we
catch before we send them "home" across the border. And then we
install an "invisible fence" all along the border. If they try to
come back in, the chip releases something and makes them all sick. The
cure is only available from a doctor who turns them all in. They get
sent home again only this time with a chip that kills you when you
cross the "invisible fence"! Three strikes and you are out!
Kewl, except your "invisible fence" will be about as effective as
Colgate's invisible shield.
Post by Benj
Post by When Dogs Run Free
"An oppressive government is more to be feared than a tiger." -
Confucius
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