Discussion:
Flight 77 disappeared from controllers' radar screens for 30 minutes on 9/11
(too old to reply)
Thebzp
2007-03-27 09:21:49 UTC
Permalink
Pentagon Crash Highlights a Radar Gap
Limited System in One Area Made Flight 77 Invisible to Controllers for
Half-Hour

By Don Phillips
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, November 3, 2001; Page A06

The airliner that slammed into the Pentagon on Sept. 11 disappeared from
controllers' radar screens for at least 30 minutes -- in part because it
was hijacked in an area of limited radar coverage. That gap cost
military and aviation officials valuable warning time, according to
officials and other sources.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A32597-2001Nov2&notFound=true

Major General Albert Stubblebine says "The plane does not fit in that
hole." He asks "What did hit the pentagon ?"



Simplifying the case against Dick Cheney
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/011805_simplify_case.shtml

August 4th 2006, 1:36 [PST] – New York – All they can do is ignore us.

Crossing the Rubicon is the definitive text detailing the war games
running on 9/11 – under Dick Cheney’s management – that created the
opportunity for the attacks to be successful.

The recent release of NORAD tapes from the morning of 9/11 has brought
the issue of the War Games back to center stage, for a moment. The
mainstream press must address this issue now but it continues to
entirely ignore Rubicon, FTW and Michael Ruppert.

The mainstream account is fraudulent. It paints a picture of military
officials who lied to the 9/11 Commission, but they never address truly
important lies that relate to the war games operating that morning. They
would have you believe that only one war game was running on 9/11 by the
North East Air Defense Sector (NEADS). The truth is that there were at
least six war games running that morning, and likely more, across the
country and the world.

The National Reconnaissance Office (NRO), an agency associated with the
CIA who is in charge of most American spy satellites, was running a
drill for an off-course aircraft crashing into its headquarters at
8:30am on 9/11.

Coincidence?

Vigilant Guardian, Vigilant Warrior, Northern Vigilance and Northern
Guardian were four separate war games running on 9/11 all across the
North American continent. Collectively they diverted air assets away
from the North East Air Defense Sector, leaving the region with only two
pairs of fighter jets with any chance of responding to the attacks.

There was at least one “live-fly” drill where a hijacking was being
simulated. Additionally, radar injects or “false blips” were placed on
FAA radar screens that ensured air traffic controllers would never be
able to distinguish a “false blip” from a real hijacking.

If you don’t think the war games are a critical aspect to the crimes of
9/11, then why did General Ralph “Ed” Eberhart (who commanded NORAD that
morning) respond only by saying, “No comment,” when I asked him who was
in charge of coordinating the multiple war games running on 9/11?
Eberhart had just finished telling the 9/11 Commission that the war
game(s)1 had helped NORAD respond quicker that morning because of their
“focus”, but then he refused to tell me who was at the center of that focus.

NORAD’s Major Don Arias confirmed for FTW that there was certainly a
“maestro” coordinating the war games on 9/11. In May of 2001, just four
months before the attacks, Dick Cheney was placed in charge of
implementing the “seamless coordination” of all military exercises and
war games pertaining to weapons of mass destruction. He was placed in
charge of managing and overseeing these operations as declared by
executive order from George Bush.

The war games were coordinated by Dick Cheney, Ralph Eberhart, or by
both of them.

All of this has been documented in Crossing the Rubicon, which lays out
the case against Dick Cheney as the prime suspect in the crimes of 9/11;
summarized in this FTW article.

After Rubicon was published, researcher Paul Thompson of
CooperativeResearch.org discovered yet another war game titled Global
Guardian that is normally scheduled in November but was rescheduled for
September – occurring on 9/11. But in the recent Vanity Fair article,
which butchers the reality of the 9/11 War Games, Michael Bronner states
the following:

The fact that there was an exercise planned for the same day as the
attack factors into several conspiracy theories, though the 9/11
commission dismisses this as coincidence. After plodding through dozens
of hours of recordings, so do I. [emphasis added]

Note that he says there was “an” exercise planned for 9/11. This
completely misrepresents the fact that multiple war games were planned
for, and implemented on, the morning of 9/11 causing massive confusion
throughout the entire Air Force paralyzing their response.

This is the closest the mainstream will come to mentioning Rubicon: a
flat dismissal that requires no evidence, no critical thinking, and no
proper analysis. The 9/11 Commission dismisses the war games so
thoroughly that they only mention one of the exercises. That is beyond
dismissal; it is a cover up.

All they can do is ignore us.

1 During the 9/11 Commission Hearing, only one exercise was ever
mentioned, and General Eberhart was only responding in regards to the
Vigilant Guardian exercise.

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/080406_one_wargame.shtml
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Hertz_Donut
2007-03-27 09:37:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thebzp
Pentagon Crash Highlights a Radar Gap
Limited System in One Area Made Flight 77 Invisible to Controllers for
Half-Hour
Another idiot spewing garbage....


Honu
Thebzp
2007-03-27 19:00:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hertz_Donut
Post by Thebzp
Pentagon Crash Highlights a Radar Gap
Limited System in One Area Made Flight 77 Invisible to Controllers for
Half-Hour
Another idiot spewing garbage....
Typical response from the Nazi Racist Bigots.
Post by Hertz_Donut
Honu
Pentagon Crash Highlights a Radar Gap
Limited System in One Area Made Flight 77 Invisible to Controllers for
Half-Hour

By Don Phillips
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, November 3, 2001; Page A06

The airliner that slammed into the Pentagon on Sept. 11 disappeared from
controllers' radar screens for at least 30 minutes -- in part because it
was hijacked in an area of limited radar coverage. That gap cost
military and aviation officials valuable warning time, according to
officials and other sources.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A32597-2001Nov2&notFound=true

Major General Albert Stubblebine says "The plane does not fit in that
hole." He asks "What did hit the pentagon ?"
http://youtu.be/ZTx9D6kW61s


Simplifying the case against Dick Cheney
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/011805_simplify_case.shtml

August 4th 2006, 1:36 [PST] – New York – All they can do is ignore us.

Crossing the Rubicon is the definitive text detailing the war games
running on 9/11 – under Dick Cheney’s management – that created the
opportunity for the attacks to be successful.

The recent release of NORAD tapes from the morning of 9/11 has brought
the issue of the War Games back to center stage, for a moment. The
mainstream press must address this issue now but it continues to
entirely ignore Rubicon, FTW and Michael Ruppert.

The mainstream account is fraudulent. It paints a picture of military
officials who lied to the 9/11 Commission, but they never address truly
important lies that relate to the war games operating that morning. They
would have you believe that only one war game was running on 9/11 by the
North East Air Defense Sector (NEADS). The truth is that there were at
least six war games running that morning, and likely more, across the
country and the world.

The National Reconnaissance Office (NRO), an agency associated with the
CIA who is in charge of most American spy satellites, was running a
drill for an off-course aircraft crashing into its headquarters at
8:30am on 9/11.

Coincidence?

Vigilant Guardian, Vigilant Warrior, Northern Vigilance and Northern
Guardian were four separate war games running on 9/11 all across the
North American continent. Collectively they diverted air assets away
from the North East Air Defense Sector, leaving the region with only two
pairs of fighter jets with any chance of responding to the attacks.

There was at least one “live-fly” drill where a hijacking was being
simulated. Additionally, radar injects or “false blips” were placed on
FAA radar screens that ensured air traffic controllers would never be
able to distinguish a “false blip” from a real hijacking.

If you don’t think the war games are a critical aspect to the crimes of
9/11, then why did General Ralph “Ed” Eberhart (who commanded NORAD that
morning) respond only by saying, “No comment,” when I asked him who was
in charge of coordinating the multiple war games running on 9/11?
Eberhart had just finished telling the 9/11 Commission that the war
game(s)1 had helped NORAD respond quicker that morning because of their
“focus”, but then he refused to tell me who was at the center of that focus.

NORAD’s Major Don Arias confirmed for FTW that there was certainly a
“maestro” coordinating the war games on 9/11. In May of 2001, just four
months before the attacks, Dick Cheney was placed in charge of
implementing the “seamless coordination” of all military exercises and
war games pertaining to weapons of mass destruction. He was placed in
charge of managing and overseeing these operations as declared by
executive order from George Bush.

The war games were coordinated by Dick Cheney, Ralph Eberhart, or by
both of them.

All of this has been documented in Crossing the Rubicon, which lays out
the case against Dick Cheney as the prime suspect in the crimes of 9/11;
summarized in this FTW article.

After Rubicon was published, researcher Paul Thompson of
CooperativeResearch.org discovered yet another war game titled Global
Guardian that is normally scheduled in November but was rescheduled for
September – occurring on 9/11. But in the recent Vanity Fair article,
which butchers the reality of the 9/11 War Games, Michael Bronner states
the following:

The fact that there was an exercise planned for the same day as the
attack factors into several conspiracy theories, though the 9/11
commission dismisses this as coincidence. After plodding through dozens
of hours of recordings, so do I. [emphasis added]

Note that he says there was “an” exercise planned for 9/11. This
completely misrepresents the fact that multiple war games were planned
for, and implemented on, the morning of 9/11 causing massive confusion
throughout the entire Air Force paralyzing their response.

This is the closest the mainstream will come to mentioning Rubicon: a
flat dismissal that requires no evidence, no critical thinking, and no
proper analysis. The 9/11 Commission dismisses the war games so
thoroughly that they only mention one of the exercises. That is beyond
dismissal; it is a cover up.

All they can do is ignore us.

1 During the 9/11 Commission Hearing, only one exercise was ever
mentioned, and General Eberhart was only responding in regards to the
Vigilant Guardian exercise.

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/080406_one_wargame.shtml
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Tankfixer
2007-03-28 03:44:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thebzp
Post by Hertz_Donut
Post by Thebzp
Pentagon Crash Highlights a Radar Gap
Limited System in One Area Made Flight 77 Invisible to Controllers for
Half-Hour
Another idiot spewing garbage....
Typical response from the Nazi Racist Bigots.
You are a nazi racist bigot ?

Sorry to hear that.....
--
--
Usenetsaurus n. an early pedantic internet mammal, who survived on a
diet of static text and
cascading "threads."
Thebzp
2007-03-30 18:53:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tankfixer
Post by Thebzp
Post by Hertz_Donut
Post by Thebzp
Pentagon Crash Highlights a Radar Gap
Limited System in One Area Made Flight 77 Invisible to Controllers for
Half-Hour
Another idiot spewing garbage....
Typical response from the Nazi Racist Bigots.
You are a nazi racist bigot ?
Sorry to hear that.....
They fake intelligence to start wars, just like what Hitler did.

Douglas Feith the Zionist Jew faked intelligence to start the Iraq war.


Feith (A Neo-Con) COOKED UP Intelligence On IRAQ


Open addmission and Discussion of Feith Office in Pentagon


Article published Monday, February 19, 2007
Architect of war

DOUGLAS Feith may not have broken any federal statutes, but his role in
ginning up bogus justification for the war in Iraq surely constitutes a
grave offense against the American people.

In plain words, he was a key figure in getting us into a quagmire we
cannot now escape, a disastrous trillion-dollar conflict that threatens
to engulf the Middle East and more.

For those who may not recall the name, Mr. Feith was deputy
undersecretary of defense for policy in the pre-war Pentagon. He
operated a back-corridor office which, according to a new inspector
general's report, was engaged in seriously misconstruing intelligence on
Iraq gathered by various federal agencies.

His briefings to the White House were, in turn, used in a concerted and
misleading campaign staged by President Bush, Vice President Cheney, and
others to convince the public that Saddam Hussein was a threat that had
to be erased.

The supposed connection between the 9/11 terrorist attacks was employed,
along with equally bogus representations about weapons of mass
destruction, to inflame public opinion and induce Congress to authorize
military action.

As recently as last fall, polls showed that more than a quarter of
Americans continued to believe in an al-Qaeda-Iraq connection, even
though the 9/11 commission found there was none.
http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070219/OPINION02/702190307

Another Jew Wolfowitz Warns of 'Surprise like Pearl Harbor' Months
Before 9/11 Attacks

Video posted recently on Live Leak shows now World Bank President Paul
Wolfowitz delivering a June 2001 West Point commencement speech wherein
he focused on surprise attacks-- making heavy reference to Pearl Harbor.

Wolfowitz illustrated, just months before the infamous 9/11 attacks,
that Pearl Harbor is interesting in that it was "preceded by an
astonishing number of unheeded warnings and missed signals."

This surfacing video only reinforces the pre-meditation established by
the Project for a New American Century (PNAC). Wolfowitz helped to pen
the think tank's September 2000 document 'Rebuilding America's Defenses'
which stated on pg. 51, amidst a larger call for dramatic military
build-up, that:

"Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary
change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and
catalyzing event -- like a new Pearl Harbor."

Pearl Harbor is mentioned again later in the document in arguing for not
only accelerated military spending, but for updated, state-of-the-art
equipment, vehicles and Navy vessels.

http://www.jonesreport.com/articles/070207_wolfowitz.html
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Tankfixer
2007-04-01 02:49:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thebzp
Post by Tankfixer
Post by Thebzp
Post by Hertz_Donut
Post by Thebzp
Pentagon Crash Highlights a Radar Gap
Limited System in One Area Made Flight 77 Invisible to Controllers for
Half-Hour
Another idiot spewing garbage....
Typical response from the Nazi Racist Bigots.
You are a nazi racist bigot ?
Sorry to hear that.....
They fake intelligence to start wars, just like what Hitler did.
IF they are so all powerful why do they let you live ?



Loonacy snipped.
--
--
Usenetsaurus n. an early pedantic internet mammal, who survived on a
diet of static text and
cascading "threads."
Thebzp
2007-04-01 08:24:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tankfixer
Post by Thebzp
Post by Tankfixer
Post by Thebzp
Post by Hertz_Donut
Post by Thebzp
Pentagon Crash Highlights a Radar Gap
Limited System in One Area Made Flight 77 Invisible to Controllers for
Half-Hour
Another idiot spewing garbage....
Typical response from the Nazi Racist Bigots.
You are a nazi racist bigot ?
Sorry to hear that.....
They fake intelligence to start wars, just like what Hitler did.
IF they are so all powerful why do they let you live ?
Maybe I am a ghost...

To you this is lunacy to others this is reality. The criminals who are
responsible for the death of thousands of innocent people, those people
hope one day they will be put on trial.



Douglas Feith the Zionist Jew faked intelligence to start the Iraq war.
http://youtu.be/ZstosE3DK5Y

Feith (A Neo-Con) COOKED UP Intelligence On IRAQ
http://youtu.be/TYwjr_dGVbs

Open addmission and Discussion of Feith Office in Pentagon
http://youtu.be/qL_wmg9SWdQ

Article published Monday, February 19, 2007
Architect of war

DOUGLAS Feith may not have broken any federal statutes, but his role in
ginning up bogus justification for the war in Iraq surely constitutes a
grave offense against the American people.

In plain words, he was a key figure in getting us into a quagmire we
cannot now escape, a disastrous trillion-dollar conflict that threatens
to engulf the Middle East and more.

For those who may not recall the name, Mr. Feith was deputy
undersecretary of defense for policy in the pre-war Pentagon. He
operated a back-corridor office which, according to a new inspector
general's report, was engaged in seriously misconstruing intelligence on
Iraq gathered by various federal agencies.

His briefings to the White House were, in turn, used in a concerted and
misleading campaign staged by President Bush, Vice President Cheney, and
others to convince the public that Saddam Hussein was a threat that had
to be erased.

The supposed connection between the 9/11 terrorist attacks was employed,
along with equally bogus representations about weapons of mass
destruction, to inflame public opinion and induce Congress to authorize
military action.

As recently as last fall, polls showed that more than a quarter of
Americans continued to believe in an al-Qaeda-Iraq connection, even
though the 9/11 commission found there was none.
http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070219/OPINION02/702190307

Another Jew Wolfowitz Warns of 'Surprise like Pearl Harbor' Months
Before 9/11 Attacks

Video posted recently on Live Leak shows now World Bank President Paul
Wolfowitz delivering a June 2001 West Point commencement speech wherein
he focused on surprise attacks-- making heavy reference to Pearl Harbor.

Wolfowitz illustrated, just months before the infamous 9/11 attacks,
that Pearl Harbor is interesting in that it was "preceded by an
astonishing number of unheeded warnings and missed signals."

This surfacing video only reinforces the pre-meditation established by
the Project for a New American Century (PNAC). Wolfowitz helped to pen
the think tank's September 2000 document 'Rebuilding America's Defenses'
which stated on pg. 51, amidst a larger call for dramatic military
build-up, that:

"Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary
change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and
catalyzing event -- like a new Pearl Harbor."

Pearl Harbor is mentioned again later in the document in arguing for not
only accelerated military spending, but for updated, state-of-the-art
equipment, vehicles and Navy vessels.

http://www.jonesreport.com/articles/070207_wolfowitz.html
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Thebzp
2007-04-02 06:26:23 UTC
Permalink
Those who are trying to hide their crimes resorting to illegally
deleting others posts to silence the truth.
Post by Tankfixer
Post by Thebzp
Post by Tankfixer
Post by Thebzp
Post by Hertz_Donut
Post by Thebzp
Pentagon Crash Highlights a Radar Gap
Limited System in One Area Made Flight 77 Invisible to Controllers for
Half-Hour
Another idiot spewing garbage....
Typical response from the Nazi Racist Bigots.
You are a nazi racist bigot ?
Sorry to hear that.....
They fake intelligence to start wars, just like what Hitler did.
IF they are so all powerful why do they let you live ?
Loonacy snipped.
--
--
San Francisco TEA PARTY for 9/11 TRUTH
http://www.sfteaparty.com/
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Hertz_Donut
2007-04-02 23:01:09 UTC
Permalink
Those who are trying to hide their crimes resorting to illegally deleting
others posts to silence the truth.
You wouldn't know the truth if it was slapping you in the face....

Honu
Phlip
2007-04-03 02:12:03 UTC
Permalink
Those who are trying to hide their crimes resorting to illegally deleting
others posts to silence the truth.
Ah, just like the FAA somehow "accidentally" shredded all the tapes of the
radar signals from 2001 September 11?
--
Phlip
http://flea.sourceforge.net/PiglegToo_1.html
Billzz
2007-04-03 05:13:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phlip
Those who are trying to hide their crimes resorting to illegally deleting
others posts to silence the truth.
Ah, just like the FAA somehow "accidentally" shredded all the tapes of the
radar signals from 2001 September 11?
Tapes? They still use tapes? Sounds like a 1950s movie about UFOs, with
the bank of tape readers running in the background. Anybody seen any system
that uses tapes in the last twenty years? Geez, and I thought that *I* was
old.
Post by Phlip
--
Phlip
http://flea.sourceforge.net/PiglegToo_1.html
Randy
2007-04-03 18:05:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Billzz
Post by Phlip
Post by Thebzp
Those who are trying to hide their crimes resorting to illegally
deleting others posts to silence the truth.
Ah, just like the FAA somehow "accidentally" shredded all the tapes of
the radar signals from 2001 September 11?
Tapes? They still use tapes? Sounds like a 1950s movie about UFOs, with
the bank of tape readers running in the background. Anybody seen any
system that uses tapes in the last twenty years? Geez, and I thought that
*I* was old.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A6632-2004May6

FAA Managers Destroyed 9/11 Tape
Recording Contained Accounts of Communications With Hijacked Planes
By Sara Kehaulani Goo
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, May 6, 2004; 6:16 PM


Six air traffic controllers provided accounts of their communications with
hijacked planes on Sept. 11, 2001, on a tape recording that was later
destroyed by Federal Aviation Administration managers, according to a
government investigative report issued today.

It is unclear what information was on the tape because no one ever listened
to, transcribed or duplicated it, the report by the Department of
Transportation inspector general said.

The report concluded that the FAA generally cooperated with the independent
panel investigating the terrorist attacks by providing documents about its
activities on Sept. 11, but the actions of two FAA managers "did not, in our
view, serve the interests of the FAA, the Department [of Transportation] or
the public."

The report was conducted at the request of Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) after
the panel investigating the Sept. 11 attacks, officially known as the
National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, complained
that the FAA had been less than forthcoming in turning over documents and
issued a subpoena to the agency for more information.

The FAA said it was cooperating fully with the 9/11 panel. The agency said
it took disciplinary action against the employee who destroyed the tape but
declined to elaborate on what kind of action they took. [Earlier, an FAA
official incorrectly stated that the agency took action against two
employees in the case.]
Post by Billzz
Post by Phlip
--
Phlip
http://flea.sourceforge.net/PiglegToo_1.html
Phlip
2007-04-03 18:33:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Randy
It is unclear what information was on the tape because no one ever listened
to, transcribed or duplicated it, the report by the Department of
Transportation inspector general said.
My bad - it wasn't the tapes of the radar signals that got shredded.

So... where are _they_?

--
Phlip
Colin Campbell
2007-04-04 01:31:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Randy
It is unclear what information was on the tape because no one ever listened
to, transcribed or duplicated it, the report by the Department of
Transportation inspector general said.
So their 'proof' is a tape that nobody ever listened to.

If nobody ever listened to the tape - why do the conspiracy theorists
think they know what was on it? Or are they just using this as a
smokescreen to hide the fact that every one of their theories has been
debunked?



--
There can be no triumph without loss.
No victory without suffering.
No freedom without sacrifice.
Phlip
2007-04-04 01:51:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Colin Campbell
So their 'proof' is a tape that nobody ever listened to.
Just one tiny bit of the overall "proof" is that the tape was destroyed.

How the hell do you expect some desk clerk, noticing an incredible national
tragedy on TV, to then _accidentally_ destroy a tape? It stands to reason
that people would be more careful and vigilant. I certainly was on that day.

"Oh, this is the tape of the conversation our tower had with a hijacked
airliner. I think I'l leave it here, on top of the shredder. Hope nobody
knocks it in!"
Post by Colin Campbell
If nobody ever listened to the tape - why do the conspiracy theorists
think they know what was on it? Or are they just using this as a
smokescreen to hide the fact that every one of their theories has been
debunked?
Well, smokescreen might indeed be the operative word here.. ;-)
--
Phlip
http://flea.sourceforge.net/PiglegToo_1.html
Hertz_Donut
2007-04-04 02:51:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phlip
Post by Colin Campbell
So their 'proof' is a tape that nobody ever listened to.
Just one tiny bit of the overall "proof" is that the tape was destroyed.
Then there is no ""proof", except for the loonies....
Post by Phlip
How the hell do you expect some desk clerk, noticing an incredible
national tragedy on TV, to then _accidentally_ destroy a tape? It stands
to reason that people would be more careful and vigilant. I certainly was
on that day.
Who cares if you were "vigilant"? You have no credibility at all, so the
point is moot.
Post by Phlip
"Oh, this is the tape of the conversation our tower had with a hijacked
airliner. I think I'l leave it here, on top of the shredder. Hope nobody
knocks it in!"
Well it certainly fits well with the whacky conspiracy theory you have
dreamed up...
Post by Phlip
Post by Colin Campbell
If nobody ever listened to the tape - why do the conspiracy theorists
think they know what was on it? Or are they just using this as a
smokescreen to hide the fact that every one of their theories has been
debunked?
Well, smokescreen might indeed be the operative word here.. ;-)
Smokescreen is indeed the operative word...it is what you are trying to blow
up everyone's ass with your lunatic theory...


Honu
Colin Campbell
2007-04-05 01:37:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phlip
Post by Colin Campbell
So their 'proof' is a tape that nobody ever listened to.
Just one tiny bit of the overall "proof" is that the tape was destroyed.
How the hell do you expect some desk clerk, noticing an incredible national
tragedy on TV, to then _accidentally_ destroy a tape? It stands to reason
that people would be more careful and vigilant. I certainly was on that day.
Ah - so all you have is speculation to support your case.

You know - if you had a life you would not make these conspiracy
theories to make you feel important.



--
There can be no triumph without loss.
No victory without suffering.
No freedom without sacrifice.
Thebzp
2007-04-06 18:38:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Colin Campbell
Post by Phlip
Post by Colin Campbell
So their 'proof' is a tape that nobody ever listened to.
Just one tiny bit of the overall "proof" is that the tape was destroyed.
How the hell do you expect some desk clerk, noticing an incredible national
tragedy on TV, to then _accidentally_ destroy a tape? It stands to reason
that people would be more careful and vigilant. I certainly was on that day.
Ah - so all you have is speculation to support your case.
You know - if you had a life you would not make these conspiracy
theories to make you feel important.
What most people don't realize there is no proof that 19 hijackers were
behind September 11 attacks controlled by a man in a cave, who the US
government have used him before, and still after five years they can't
find him.

Hijack 'suspects' alive and well
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm

http://www.the7thfire.com/Politics%20and%20History/9-11/9-11_hijackers_still_alive.htm
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Colin Campbell
2007-04-04 01:27:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phlip
Those who are trying to hide their crimes resorting to illegally deleting
others posts to silence the truth.
Ah, just like the FAA somehow "accidentally" shredded all the tapes of the
radar signals from 2001 September 11?
And you can back up this claim? Or is this just hot air?



--
There can be no triumph without loss.
No victory without suffering.
No freedom without sacrifice.
Phlip
2007-04-04 01:30:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Colin Campbell
Post by Phlip
Ah, just like the FAA somehow "accidentally" shredded all the tapes of the
radar signals from 2001 September 11?
And you can back up this claim? Or is this just hot air?
No, but I didn't need to; someone found the citation that I remembered.

If you indeed feel like debating on this topic, look up where Dick Cheney
was and what he was doing on 9/11.
--
Phlip
http://flea.sourceforge.net/PiglegToo_1.html
Hertz_Donut
2007-04-04 02:48:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phlip
Post by Colin Campbell
Post by Phlip
Ah, just like the FAA somehow "accidentally" shredded all the tapes of the
radar signals from 2001 September 11?
And you can back up this claim? Or is this just hot air?
No, but I didn't need to; someone found the citation that I remembered.
If you indeed feel like debating on this topic, look up where Dick Cheney
was and what he was doing on 9/11.
So, you cannot back up your claim, and in typical liberal fashion, try to
change the focus by making another idiotic claim?

Honu
Colin Campbell
2007-04-05 01:40:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phlip
Post by Colin Campbell
Post by Phlip
Ah, just like the FAA somehow "accidentally" shredded all the tapes of the
radar signals from 2001 September 11?
And you can back up this claim? Or is this just hot air?
No, but I didn't need to; someone found the citation that I remembered.
If you indeed feel like debating on this topic, look up where Dick Cheney
was and what he was doing on 9/11.
I have read that (lame) stuff. All you have is speculation and some
really bad science.

I am not impressed.

BTW - you might want to read an article on the psychology of
conspiracy theories. It is an interesting explanation about how
people fall for the same old stuff time after time.




--
There can be no triumph without loss.
No victory without suffering.
No freedom without sacrifice.
Al Dykes
2007-04-05 01:42:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Colin Campbell
Post by Phlip
Post by Colin Campbell
Post by Phlip
Ah, just like the FAA somehow "accidentally" shredded all the tapes of the
radar signals from 2001 September 11?
And you can back up this claim? Or is this just hot air?
No, but I didn't need to; someone found the citation that I remembered.
If you indeed feel like debating on this topic, look up where Dick Cheney
was and what he was doing on 9/11.
I have read that (lame) stuff. All you have is speculation and some
really bad science.
I am not impressed.
BTW - you might want to read an article on the psychology of
conspiracy theories. It is an interesting explanation about how
people fall for the same old stuff time after time.
http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/2006/12/science-vs-bull.html

Thursday, December 21, 2006
Science Vs. Bull
Joseph Cannon

As mentioned in a comment below, my sympathies for conspiracy
theories evaporate when the subject switches from investigative
reporting to science. I'm all for tracking Lee Harvey Oswald's
spooky pals in Guy Banister's office; I'm all for telling the story
of what really went down in Allende's Chile; I'm all for sorting out
the ins and outs of the Litvinenko case; I'm all for tracking the
shadowy world inhabited by guys like Michael Ledeen and groups like
the Pinay Circle.

But when the subject turns to science, I advise extreme caution.

And that's when the conspiracy buffs become pluperfectly pissed off
with me, because many of them just love, love, love that
pseudoscience. From radionics to Roswell, they dig it.

A discursive example:

I can't tell you how many times I've argued with film-illiterate
conspiracy buffs who knew -- just bloody knew -- that subliminal
images appear in The Exorcist. Every time I encounter this claim, I
explain that, while quick cuts do exist in that movie, subliminals
are impossible. Film runs at 24 frames a second, and 1/24th of a
second is not subliminal; that's why you can see scratches and
splices in a bad print. 1/3000th of a second is subliminal, but to
flash an image so briefly requires a specialized piece of equipment
called a tachistiscope. (For the same reason, no subliminals can
ever appear on television, which has a 30 fps refresh rate.)

The usual response: "There must have been a tachisti-whatzit in the
theater!"

Actually, I've spoken with the projectionist who ran The Exorcist
during its first run at the National in Los Angeles back in '73. (In
those days, big films did not open wide.) There was no such device.

Point won? Nope. The ne'er-say-die conspiracy buff would invariably
accuse me of not knowing anything about movie technology (!) or of
being part of the conspiracy.

(Before you say it: Yes, I know all about Vicary's stunt in the
1950s. He used a tachistiscope, and his results had no scientific
value due to the lack of controls. And yes, I know about the
Silverman/Weinberger experiments of the 1980s, which have been
questioned due to some unsuccessful attempts at replication.)

All of which is my way of coming back to Dylan Avery, director of
Loose Change, the film which many controlled demolition believers
consider the Matrix-style "red pill" that awoke them to the
horrible, horrible truth of what really happened on 9/11. In a
recent comment, Dylan revealed that his film is a religious
enterprise, not an attempt at scientific inquiry.

The giveaway quotation comes from a debate between Dylan Avery,
partner Jason Bermas, and debunker Ronald Wieck. You can see the
debate here; a partial transcript is here.

The revelatory words:

Wieck: I want to ask both of you quickly, what would falsify your
beliefs? What would it take? What would we need to change your
mind about this?

Avery: There is nothing.

Nothing could falsify this belief? Then -- by definition -- we have
left the edifice of science and entered the realm of religion.

The existence of God is the most commonly-heard non-falsifiable
assertion. If you're as ancient as I am, you may recall this
exchange from an old Bill Cosby routine, which demonstrates the
principle:

Dad: Don't step out the bed. I've placed a dozen poisonous snakes
on the floor.

Young Bill: I don't see no snakes...

Dad: They're invisible!

What would falsify my assertion that controlled demolitions did not
take down those buildings? A commenter on the Screw Loose Change
blog offered some sensible suggestions:

- a consensus among structural engineers and demolition experts
that there was a demolition

- peer-reviewed research supporting twoofer claims

- whistleblowers from within the massive conspiracy

- a logical narrative would be nice too

Actually, I find it odd that we haven't yet had any putative
whistleblowers. The hard-core JFK buffs can name about a dozen guys
who, over the years, have made dubious "confessions" that they were
either one of the shooters or one of the mystery tramps.

Back to the main point. My standards for falsification are less
demanding. I'm not asking for a consensus of physicists -- a mere
twenty would be nice. When the CD-ers can count among their number a
certain number of demolition experts -- twenty? Fifteen? -- I will
listen respectfully. Right now, the number of demolition experts who
believe in the CD theory of 911 is an embarrassing zero.

The CD-ers claim that their writings have passed muster in a "peer
reviewed" journal, But that publication, The Journal of 911 Studies,
does not count among its peers a single person with professional
expertise in the area of controlled demolition. And yet it is
devoted to "proving" the controlled demolition hypothesis!

Why have the editors not recruited any experts in the very field
under discussion? Perhaps because those experts would say things
that the CD believers may not wish to hear.

The fact is, no pro-CD theories have appeared in any peer-reviewed
scientific periodical founded before the events in question
occurred. As far as I know, all articles published in actual science
journals have led readers in a very different direction.

Some conspiracists will counter: The editors of those journals must
have been paid to print lies! Welcome to the wonderful world of
non-falsifiability.

If dozens, hundreds of eyewitnesses see a commercial jet smashing
into the Pentagon, those witnesses stand damned as liars. Welcome to
the wonderful world of non-falsifiability.

"The buildings came down at free-fall speeds!" bleat the
CD-ers. That argument has been refuted more than once. See here and
here and here. Also see the Screw Loose Change video itself -- or
any video of the collapse, which shows rubble free-falling at a rate
faster than the building collapse.

Doesn't matter: Those rebuttals were written in bad faith, and any
video evidence that challenges the theory must have been
Photoshopped.

Welcome to the world of non-falsifiability.

Should we extend Avery and Bermas the excuse of youth? Could it be
that they did not know how the concept of falsifiability works in
science?

My High School Science teacher explained the basic principle to me,
just as yours probably told you. One can only hope that Avery and
Bermas had a similar instructor. Beyond that, everyone must admit
that Avery and Bermas are playing with the big boys now. They made a
film which spoke to millions about scientific questions, and (unlike
most actual scientists) they feel quite comfortable speaking in
terms of definitely instead of perhaps.

If they did not make it their business to learn the scientific
method, they deserve contempt.
--
a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m
Don't blame me. I voted for Gore. A Proud signature since 2001
Phlip
2007-04-05 02:01:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Colin Campbell
I have read that (lame) stuff. All you have is speculation and some
really bad science.
You make me mildly curious what views you think I support here. If you think
it's that controlled-demolition crap, you ain't right, and your reaction is
yet another result of that disinformation doing its intended job.
Post by Colin Campbell
BTW - you might want to read an article on the psychology of
conspiracy theories. It is an interesting explanation about how
people fall for the same old stuff time after time.
I'm sure the authors of the disinformation have done their homework. ;-)
--
Phlip
http://flea.sourceforge.net/PiglegToo_1.html
Hertz_Donut
2007-04-05 07:44:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phlip
Post by Colin Campbell
I have read that (lame) stuff. All you have is speculation and some
really bad science.
You make me mildly curious what views you think I support here. If you
think it's that controlled-demolition crap, you ain't right, and your
reaction is yet another result of that disinformation doing its intended
job.
Post by Colin Campbell
BTW - you might want to read an article on the psychology of
conspiracy theories. It is an interesting explanation about how
people fall for the same old stuff time after time.
I'm sure the authors of the disinformation have done their homework. ;-)
Nah, it is just that weak minded, gullible idiots like you insist on
believing fairy tales.
When it comes to real science, you just refuse to accept it because it would
make your miserable, lonely life even more devoid of hope...

Honu
mallam
2007-03-27 09:40:16 UTC
Permalink
Dear sir,

My name is Mr.Mallam Kachala, I am the chief security adviser to the
formal president Charles Taylor of Liberia.

I want to let you know that I have a huge amount of money that I want
invest with you, as long as you can maintain trust and secrecy, a
month before we left office a huge amount of money was handed over to
me for purchasing of Arms from Germany.(US$20 million) to arrange Arms
for the big fight against rebel forces before we were ordered to step
down and move out of Liberia by United Nation and the head of ECOWAS
countries, Immediately I notice the fall of president Charles Taylor,
I quickly arrange and moved the fund out of Liberia through a
diplomatic means for safe keeping in a security vault in Cotonou Rep
of Benin, where the consignment is currently deposited and declared as
a family treasures.

Currently, I am out of Liberia and decided to hide in Cotonou,
republic of Benin without the knowledge of Liberian Government and
Charles Taylor and the entire Liberia Security Network for security
reasons.

Therefore I am soliciting for your help to secure this fund properly
into your account for joint investment between you and me so as long
as we can be honest with each other , I am going to make you the
beneficiary to the fund as to enable retrieve the consignment out from
the security Vault here in Cotonou Rep of Benin since I can not move
freely.

Every modalities on how to secure this money has been perfected which
will be furnished to you Immediately you indicate your interest or
sincere readiness to work with me in honesty and trust, also your
direct phone/fax number are needed for easy communications.

Awaiting for your urgent response thanks.You can also call me on
private mailbox for more explanation. thanks.

Best Regards,
Mr.Mallam Kachala
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