Was General Stilwel the worst US General in World War 2?

[Byker]

Interesting video.

What do you think of him?

I dunno about Vinegar Joe, but Adm. Ernest King was clearly the worst
Admiral in WWII.

U-boats had a field day off the East coast thanks to him:
https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1992-11-02-1992307117-story.html

During 1942, U-boats would sink over 600 ships (over 3 million tons,)
killing thousands of merchant seamen, what was effectively a greater
disaster than Pearl Harbor in terms of ships sunk and lives lost.

He also resisted the employment of long-range USAAF B-24 Liberators on
Atlantic maritime patrols, thus allowing the U-boats a safe area in the
middle of the Atlantic, the so-called "Atlantic Gap", the denial of adequate
numbers of landing craft to the Allied invasion on D-Day, and the reluctance
to permit the Royal Navy's Pacific Fleet any role in the Pacific. He made no
secret that he HATED the British, especially the Royal Navy. In all of these
instances, circumstances forced a re-evaluation or he was overruled. It has
also been pointed out that King did not, in his post-war report to the
Secretary of the Navy, accurately describe the slowness of the American
response to the off-shore U-boat threat in early 1942.

General Hastings Ismay, chief of staff to Winston Churchill, described King
as: "[T]ough as nails and carried himself as stiffly as a poker. He was
blunt and stand-offish, almost to the point of rudeness. At the start, he
was intolerant and suspicious of all things British, especially the Royal
Navy; but he was almost equally intolerant and suspicious of the American
Army. War against Japan was the problem to which he had devoted the study of
a lifetime, and he resented the idea of American resources being used for
any other purpose than to destroy the Japanese. He mistrusted Churchill's
powers of advocacy, and was apprehensive that he would wheedle President
Roosevelt into neglecting the war in the Pacific."


As for Stilwell, his caustic personality rubbed a lot of people the wrong
way, but just as long as the end justified the means, Army brass tended to
deal with it with a wink and a nudge.

Barbara W. Tuchman records that Stilwell was a lifelong Republican: "[H]e
retained the family Republicanism and joined naturally in the exhilarating
exercise of Roosevelt-hating" and later (at the time of his meeting with
Roosevelt) "At home Stilwell was a conventional Republican who shared the
sentiments and adopted the tone of the Roosevelt-haters, in which he was
influenced by his brother John, an extremist of the species." Elsewhere she
notes that, in the view of an (unnamed) close friend, "Stilwell was liberal
and sympathetic by instinct. But he was also conservative. Tuchman notes his
use in his letters and diaries of a catalogue of now insulting words which
she says "he used easily and seemingly without pejorative content": these
included "limeys for the English, frogs for the French ("met a frog and his
wife on shipboard"), huns and squareheads for Germans, wops for Italians,
chinks or chinos for Chinese, googs for Filipinos, niggers or coons for
Negroes",while at the end of the war Tuchman says he took "a harsh pleasure
in touring the gutted and burned-out districts of Yokohama and staring at
the once arrogant [Japanese] now living in shanties of scrap lumber and tin
and scratching in the dirt to plant onions".
https://www.amazon.com/Stilwell-American-Experience-China-1911-1945/dp/1433292963

His diary entry for 1 September 1945 (in Yokohama) reads in part: "What a
kick to stare at the arrogant, ugly, moon-faced, buck-toothed, bowlegged
bastards, and realize where this puts them. Many newly demobilized soldiers
around. Most police salute. People generally just apathetic. We gloated over
the destruction & came in at 3:00 feeling fine."
https://media.hoover.org/sites/default/files/documents/1945Stilwell.pdf

It is some consolation that he died before he could collect retirement. He
died of cancer in 1946 while still on active duty and five months short of
reaching the Army's mandatory retirement age of 64...

[SolomonW]

Post by Byker

Interesting video.
http://youtu.be/TBNZqC3h_Y4

What do you think of him?
I dunno about Vinegar Joe, but Adm. Ernest King was clearly the worst
Admiral in WWII.
https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1992-11-02-1992307117-story.html
During 1942, U-boats would sink over 600 ships (over 3 million tons,)
killing thousands of merchant seamen, what was effectively a greater
disaster than Pearl Harbor in terms of ships sunk and lives lost.
He also resisted the employment of long-range USAAF B-24 Liberators on
Atlantic maritime patrols, thus allowing the U-boats a safe area in the
middle of the Atlantic, the so-called "Atlantic Gap", the denial of adequate
numbers of landing craft to the Allied invasion on D-Day, and the reluctance
to permit the Royal Navy's Pacific Fleet any role in the Pacific. He made no
secret that he HATED the British, especially the Royal Navy. In all of these
instances, circumstances forced a re-evaluation or he was overruled. It has
also been pointed out that King did not, in his post-war report to the
Secretary of the Navy, accurately describe the slowness of the American
response to the off-shore U-boat threat in early 1942.
General Hastings Ismay, chief of staff to Winston Churchill, described King
as: "[T]ough as nails and carried himself as stiffly as a poker. He was
blunt and stand-offish, almost to the point of rudeness. At the start, he
was intolerant and suspicious of all things British, especially the Royal
Navy; but he was almost equally intolerant and suspicious of the American
Army. War against Japan was the problem to which he had devoted the study of
a lifetime, and he resented the idea of American resources being used for
any other purpose than to destroy the Japanese. He mistrusted Churchill's
powers of advocacy, and was apprehensive that he would wheedle President
Roosevelt into neglecting the war in the Pacific."
As for Stilwell, his caustic personality rubbed a lot of people the wrong
way, but just as long as the end justified the means, Army brass tended to
deal with it with a wink and a nudge.
Barbara W. Tuchman records that Stilwell was a lifelong Republican: "[H]e
retained the family Republicanism and joined naturally in the exhilarating
exercise of Roosevelt-hating" and later (at the time of his meeting with
Roosevelt) "At home Stilwell was a conventional Republican who shared the
sentiments and adopted the tone of the Roosevelt-haters, in which he was
influenced by his brother John, an extremist of the species." Elsewhere she
notes that, in the view of an (unnamed) close friend, "Stilwell was liberal
and sympathetic by instinct. But he was also conservative. Tuchman notes his
use in his letters and diaries of a catalogue of now insulting words which
she says "he used easily and seemingly without pejorative content": these
included "limeys for the English, frogs for the French ("met a frog and his
wife on shipboard"), huns and squareheads for Germans, wops for Italians,
chinks or chinos for Chinese, googs for Filipinos, niggers or coons for
Negroes",while at the end of the war Tuchman says he took "a harsh pleasure
in touring the gutted and burned-out districts of Yokohama and staring at
the once arrogant [Japanese] now living in shanties of scrap lumber and tin
and scratching in the dirt to plant onions".
https://www.amazon.com/Stilwell-American-Experience-China-1911-1945/dp/1433292963
His diary entry for 1 September 1945 (in Yokohama) reads in part: "What a
kick to stare at the arrogant, ugly, moon-faced, buck-toothed, bowlegged
bastards, and realize where this puts them. Many newly demobilized soldiers
around. Most police salute. People generally just apathetic. We gloated over
the destruction & came in at 3:00 feeling fine."
https://media.hoover.org/sites/default/files/documents/1945Stilwell.pdf
It is some consolation that he died before he could collect retirement. He
died of cancer in 1946 while still on active duty and five months short of
reaching the Army's mandatory retirement age of 64...

I am not sure about King, but General Stilwel certaily seems to have have
much to answer for here.

[Rich Rostrom]

Post by Byker
I dunno about Vinegar Joe, but Adm. Ernest King was
clearly the worst Admiral in WWII.

Don't be silly.

There were literally hundreds of admirals in WW I,
probably over a thousand in all the powers combined.

Many of these were elderly timeservers, or mediocrities
put in charge of some harbor installation or support
function (ordnance, construction, training, personnel).

King may have been stiff-necked, rude, and gratuitously
hostile to the Army and the British. There's no question
that he made some mistakes. But he presided over the
devolopment of the largest navy in history, which after
the early stage of the Pacific won every battle or campaign.

[SolomonW]

Post by Rich Rostrom

Post by Byker
I dunno about Vinegar Joe, but Adm. Ernest King was
clearly the worst Admiral in WWII.

Don't be silly.
There were literally hundreds of admirals in WW I,
probably over a thousand in all the powers combined.
Many of these were elderly timeservers, or mediocrities
put in charge of some harbor installation or support
function (ordnance, construction, training, personnel).
King may have been stiff-necked, rude, and gratuitously
hostile to the Army and the British. There's no question
that he made some mistakes. But he presided over the
devolopment of the largest navy in history, which after
the early stage of the Pacific won every battle or campaign.

Yes and included in these victories is his substantial contribution against
the U-boats by the end of 1942, the uboat happy times were over.

[Keith Willshaw]

Post by Byker
As for Stilwell, his caustic personality rubbed a lot of people the wrong
way, but just as long as the end justified the means, Army brass tended to
deal with it with a wink and a nudge.

The biggest problem with Stilwell was that he didnt look after his
troops. Crack units such as Merrils Marauders and the Chindits were not
only kept in action too long but they were undersupplied. Worse units
trained and equipped as light infantry were pressed into use in battles
they were neither trained nor equipped for.

At Nhpum Ga, where Merrils Marauders were pressed into use as a blocking
force against a Japanese offensive without the heavy weapons needed the
Marauders killed 400 Japanese soldiers but had 57 killed in action, 302
wounded, and 379 incapacitated due to illness and exhaustion. Of the
unit's 200 mules, 75 were killed by artillery and mortar fire.

The unit was essentially destroyed in the end with only 130 combat ready
troops out of the 3000 it had started with and only 2 of those men had
not been wounded or been hospitalised by dysentry

In the case of the Chindits he ordered them to launch an attack on well
defended positions at Mogaung despite having no artillery, tank support
, few mortars and indequate supplies. Against the odds they succeeded
but suffered 50 percent casualties and to make matters worse Stilwell
went on the radio and claimed it as a victory for Chinese troops under
his command.

When Bill Slim, who was famous for his concern for his troops (who
called him Uncle Bill) met with Stillwell and informed him that his men
were exhausted and should be withdrawn Stilwell retorted that they were
simply yellow. He actually threatened the Chindit commander with a court
martial for refusing to obey orders and cowardice.

The contrast between Stilwell and Slim could not be more stark. Just
before the 1945 Burma offensive Slim made a tour of the units involved
and dressed as a private soldier carrying a Lee Enfield rifle explained
what the plan was and made a great impression. The force was properly
supplied and equipped with an efficient medevac system and was
adequately supplied from the air. This was perhaps the most polyglot
army in history consisting of 2 British Divisons, 7 Indian, 3 from West
African, 6 Chinese divisions, 2 regiments from the U.S. Army and
various tribal militias made up of Shan, Chin, Naga, Kachin and Karen
peoples raised by the OSS and the SOE. The author George McDomald
Fraser who served with the Border regiment described it as all the wild
hill tribes of the British Empire gathered together, pointed at the
Japanese army and let loose.

The result was the destruction of the Japanese armies who suffered
72,000 batle casualties and another 80,000 from starvation and disease.

Stilwell became regarded by both the Chinese and British as an
incompetent loud mouthed bully and was replaced. His replacement,
General Wedemeyer was appalled to find none of Stilwell's staff had any
real knowledge of the strategic or tactical situation as Stilwell kept
it to himself. Worse Stilwell would not brief him on the situation nor
hand over any documents or plans.

Stilwell was effectively relegated to admin duties in the USA before
being given command of 10th Army AFTER the battle of Okinawa and it was
disbanded a few months later.